Liberals at Ark Times can not stand up to Scott Klusendorf’s pro-life arguments (Part 2 ) Blogger asserts, “You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem.”

Scott Klusendorf Speaks at the 40 Days for Life in Dayton, OH

Francis Schaeffer Whatever Happened to the Human Race (Episode 1) ABORTION

Francis Schaeffer: What Ever Happened to the Human Race? (Full-Length Documentary)


Part 1 on abortion runs from 00:00 to 39:50, Part 2 on Infanticide runs from 39:50 to 1:21:30, Part 3 on Youth Euthanasia runs from 1:21:30 to 1:45:40, Part 4 on the basis of human dignity runs from 1:45:40 to 2:24:45 and Part 5 on the basis of truth runs from 2:24:45 to 3:00:04

This crucial series is narrated by the late Dr. Francis Schaeffer and former Surgeon General Dr. C. Everett Koop. Today, choices are being made that undermine human rights at their most basic level. Practices once considered unthinkable are now acceptable – abortion, infanticide and euthanasia. The destruction of human life, young and old, is being sanctioned on an ever-increasing scale by the medical profession, by the courts, by parents and by silent Christians. The five episodes in this series examine the sanctity of life as a social, moral and spiritual issue which the Christian must not ignore. The conclusion presents the Christian alternative as the only real solution to man’s problems.

_____________________________

I have gone back and forth with Ark Times liberal bloggers on the issue of abortion, but I am going to try something new. I am going to respond with logical and rational reasons the pro-life view is true. All of this material is from a paper by Scott Klusendorf called FIVE BAD WAYS TO ARGUE ABOUT ABORTION .

The person using the username “Steven E ” wrote this on 5-10-13 on the Ark Times Blog:

You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem. 

Then there are the idiots and murderers who claim that a fetus is not a baby. If it is not a baby, it is not a Life worthy of consideration. To some of them, an elective abortion at the 8th month is no moral problem, which is a giant and repugnant LIE. 

To say life begins at conception is a lie.

To say a fetus, even though eight months old, is not a life is another lie, too.

____________________

I responded:

Steven E, you have written some very wise things on this blog many times before but I have differ with you on one short point from what you just said. These are your exact words:

“You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem.”

Scott Klusendorf responded to this kind of thinking by stating:

SLED: Defend the Unborn with Scott Klusendorf

Pro-life advocates contend that elective abortion unjustly takes the life of a defenseless human being.  This simplifies the abortion controversy by focusing public attention on just one question: Is the unborn a member of the human family?  If so, killing him or her to benefit others is a serious moral wrong.  Conversely, if the unborn are not human, elective abortion requires no more justification than having a tooth pulled.

Scientifically, we know that from the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings.  Leading embryology textbooks confirm this.1 Prior to advocating elective abortion, former Planned Parenthood President Dr. Alan Guttmacher was perplexed that anyone, much less a medical doctor, would question these basic scientific facts.  “This all seems so simple and evident that it is difficult to picture a time when it wasn’t part of the common knowledge,” he wrote in his book Life in the Making.2

Philosophically, there is no morally significant difference between the embryo you once were and the adult you are today.  Differences of size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency are not relevant in the way that abortion advocates need them to be.  The simple acronym SLED can be used to illustrate these non-essential differences:3

Size: True, embryos are smaller than newborns and adults, but why is that relevant?  Do we really want to say that large people are more valuable than small ones?  Men are generally larger than women, but that doesn’t mean they deserve more rights.  Size doesn’t equal value.

Level of development: True, embryos and fetuses are less developed than you and I.  But again, why is this relevant?  Four year-old girls are less developed than 14 year-old ones. Should older children have more rights than their younger siblings?  Some people say that the immediate capacity for self-awareness and a desire to go on living makes one valuable. But if that is true, newborns do not qualify as valuable human beings.  Infants do not acquire distinct self-awareness and memory until several months after birth.4 (Best case scenario, infants acquire limited self-awareness three months after birth, when the synapse connections increase from 56 trillion to 1,000 trillion.)  As abortion advocate and philosopher Dean Stretton writes, “Any plausible pro-choice theory will have to deny newborns a full right to life.  That’s counterintuitive.”5

Environment: Where you are has no bearing on who you are.  Does your value change when you cross the street or roll over in bed?  If not, how can a journey of eight inches down the birth-canal suddenly change the essential nature of the unborn from non-human to human?  If the unborn are not already valuable human beings, merely changing their location can’t make them so.

Degree of Dependency: If viability bestows human value, then all those who depend on insulin or kidney medication are not valuable and we may kill them.  Conjoined twins who share blood type and bodily systems also have no right to life.

In short, although humans differ immensely with respect to talents, accomplishments, and degrees of development, they are nonetheless equal (and valuable) because they all have the same human nature.

FOOTNOTES:

1 See T.W. Sadler, Langman’s Embryology, 5th ed. (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders, 1993) p. 3; Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (Toronto: B.C. Decker, 1988) p. 2; O’Rahilly, Ronand and Muller, Pabiola, Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd ed. (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996) pp. 8, 29. See also Maureen L. Condic, “Life: Defining the Beginning by the End,” First Things, May 2003.

2 A. Guttmacher, Life in the Making: the Story of Human Procreation (New York: Viking Press, 1933) p. 3

3 SLED test initially developed by Stephen Schwarz but modified significantly and explained here by Scott Klusendorf. Stephen Schwarz, The Moral Question of Abortion (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1990) pp. 17-18.

4 Conor Liston & Jerome Kagan, “Brain Development: Memory Enhancement in Early Childhood,” Nature 419, 896 (2002). See also O’Rahilly, Ronand and Muller, Pabiola, Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd ed. (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996) p. 8.

Steven E did respond by writing:

Saline, I appreciate the very informative answer, but the beginning stages of the embryo, even these decorated folks have to admit, cannot live outside the uterine wall. You can have a 3 month premature birth survive because it is, undeniably, a living person.

That undeniable scientific line kind of defeats the extremes of both sides.

I make no mistake. There is a time when the choice belongs exclusively to the pregnant woman. There is also a time when a contentious woman knows that she is killing a living being and should give it proper thought, rather than dismissing this living human life as ‘just’ a fetus.

I did respond by writing:

Yes the unborn baby that is only 3 months along can not live outside the womb because this child must depend on the mother for food. Steven E you are correct about that but what about that logic being used on the 3 month old baby that is dependent on the mother and father to provide food? What if a child requires insulin to live? Should we say the child is not worthy of life because of the dependence on a drug to live?

Yes the younger unborn baby is smaller at 13 weeks than 39 weeks but is a 4 year old young girl not a child worthy of life because she is not mature in every way like a 18 year old girl is?

Related posts:

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part T “Abortion is a dirty business” (includes video “Truth and History” and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part S “Who gave the unborn the inalienable right to life?” (includes video “Slaughter of the Innocents” and an editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part R “What’s wrong with Roe v. Wade decision?” (includes video “Truth and History” and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part Q “Three Ark Times bloggers take pro-life postion” (includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE) (editorial cartoon)

  I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part P “Freedom of speech lives on Ark Times Blog” (includes the video ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part O “Without God in the picture there can not be lasting meaning to our lives” (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part N “A discussion of the Woody Allen Movie CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS”(includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part M “Old Testament prophecy fulfilled?”Part 3(includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE)

  I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part L “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 2 (includes the film THE BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part K “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 1 (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part J “Can atheists find lasting meaning to their lives?” (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part I “Old Testament Bible Prophecy” includes the film TRUTH AND HISTORY and article ” Jane Roe became pro-life”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part H “Are humans special?” includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) Reagan: ” To diminish the value of one category of human life is to diminish us all”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part G “How do moral nonabsolutists come up with what is right?” includes the film “ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE”)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part F “Carl Sagan’s views on how God should try and contact us” includes film “The Basis for Human Dignity”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part E “Moral absolutes and abortion” Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 5(includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part D “If you can’t afford a child can you abort?”Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 4 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part C “Abortion” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 3 includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part B “Gendercide” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes Part 2 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part A “The Pro-life Issue” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes Part 1 includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

_____________________________

I have gone back and forth with Ark Times liberal bloggers on the issue of abortion, but I am going to try something new. I am going to respond with logical and rational reasons the pro-life view is true. All of this material is from a paper by Scott Klusendorf called FIVE BAD WAYS TO ARGUE ABOUT ABORTION .

On 2-8-13 on the Ark Times Blog the person using the username “Venessa,” wrote, ” Well, Saline, I am NOT A CHRISTIAN and you don’t get to force your beliefs on me.”

____________________

Here is my response:  

Scott Klusendorf responded to this kind of thinking by stating:

July 13, 2013 – 7:37 am Categories: Francis Schaeffer, Prolife | Post a comment

“Sanctity of Life Saturday” Remembering Dr. C. Everett Koop with pictures and quotes Part 14 (includes cartoon and pro-life poster)

Here is an article below by Greg Koukl that discusses the book by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop:

Life Unworthy of Life

Gregory Koukl

Things like great steps of moral depravity are not really taken in great steps; they’re taken in little pieces.divider

My remarks today are precipitated to some degree by two things that happened to me in the last 24 hours. I had a very interesting and significant conversation with two of my neighbors, Tony and Ollie, in Carson. We talk frequently because we’re neighbors and Tony is a fishing buddy, and ethical issues frequently come up.I also I saw the movie “Judgment at Nuremberg,” a very important film. I’ve been doing some reading in a book called The Nazi Doctors by Robert Jay Lifton so I thought I’d see this film because the book frequently refers to the trials at Nuremberg.So I saw the film and it’s not only a good film in its own right and stimulating and invigorating to the mind, but it also deals with some of the issues that we’re talking about now. It deals with the issue of justice and the law and euthanasia. Among other things it’s a commentary on normative relativism, the idea that every culture should make up its own idea about what’s right and wrong and that one culture does not have the right or liberty to judge another culture. It’s a very popular viewpoint in our own culture right now. And it’s interesting that this was one defense the Nazis used at Nuremberg, that they should not be judged by another culture.In any event let me tell you about both my conversation with Tony and Ollie first and some reflections on “Judgment at Nuremberg” and how that tied into the conversation.Part of what I’ve done here in the last two and a half years, and what we’ve done together, quite frankly, is not to just discuss ethical issues per se, but look at ways of thinking and looking at the world that have ethical ramifications, and in so doing become equipped to think ethically and also to have the language and eyes to see what’s happening beneath the surface, the trends. I talked a few weeks ago about the trend that I call “The Death of Humanness,” the death of the idea that human beings are valuable in themselves, and the ramifications that this idea–pervading our society in a very quiet fashion–is having on public policy and ethical decisions that we make in our culture–truly issues of life and death.Now I’ve recently been reading the book The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide , by Robert J. Lifton, published by Basic Books. It’s one that I footnoted in the talk, “The Death of Humanness.” This book it talks about the Nazi’s program of euthanasia and how it started with sterilization and progressed to euthanasia. Lifton even seems to suggest that the word “euthanasia” might even have been coined by the Nazis. If not coined by them, they were the first ones to really put it into popular use. And of course, the word comes from the Greek ” eu ” which means good and ” thanatos ” which means death–i.e. “good death.”In any event, Tony and Ollie and I were talking about this last night and I was talking about my concern in our culture. I’ve been reading through the book and I’ve seen the pattern of euthanasia in Nazi Germany, how it escalated into what came to be known as the Final Solution–Auschwitz, Dachau, Treblinka, Majdanek, the Nazi concentration camps and the attempted destruction of the Jewish race. But the book is not so much about the ethics of genocide. Instead it seeks to come to grips with why and how the medical profession could have participated in this killing process. So it’s a psychological analysis, to some degree. But as I’m reading through this book I see a very chilling scenario that unfolds, one I also I see unfolding at this time and I’m chilled by it, not only because it was a historical event of the past, but because I see some of the same elements in place right here in our own time.As we talked I explained the process as Lifton describes it in the book. First all children three years of age and under who were even suspected of idiocy or mongolism or microcephaly or hydrocephaly or malformation of limbs or head or spinal column, paralysis including spastic conditions, all put into a group called “The Children’s Specialty Department” and trucked to killing centers and put to death. Sometimes they were put to death by injection, but usually they were killed by starvation and occasionally by carbon monoxide gas.

But you see, it didn’t stop with euthanizing defective little children. Pretty soon juvenile delinquents began to be euthanized, and then Jewish-Aryan half-breeds began to be euthanized. At the same time there was another project under a camouflage organization called “The Reich Group of Sanitarium and Nursing Homes” with the goal of euthanizing older people. Before long it was not just the young and the old but people in the middle being killed for political reasons and ethnic reasons. But it started with the young and elderly that were considered a drain on the resources of the state.

They did this through camouflage organizations, as I mentioned, groups that had very nice sounding titles, and they did it by manipulating language. This is how they deceived the general population. For example, the children were transported to the thirty or more killing areas in vehicles that had printed on the sides “The Common Welfare Ambulance Service.” It sounded so nice and pleasant, yet “common welfare” meant that these undesirables were being put to death, cleansed from the race. This was a “cleansing” act; they called it “therapy”, in fact, “healing.”

And as we talked about this Tony asked a question, “How could this ever happen in our time?” And he brought up homosexuals because homosexuals were also put to death in the camps along with Gypsies and political dissidents and Jews. How could this kind of thing ever eventuate here?

I think things like great steps of moral depravity are not really taken in great steps; they’re taken in little pieces. It’s like the guy who was asked if he could eat an elephant. “No, I can’t eat an elephant,” he said. But the answer to that question is, “Yes you can, if you eat the elephant one bite at a time.” And this is what happens in any culture that moves toward this type of a thing, the elephant is eaten one bite at a time.

The first bite is taken when someone decides that there is a life that is unworthy of life. This phrase “life unworthy of life” is a Nazi term, by the way. They coined the phrase. Once someone decides there is a life unworthy of life then the question becomes “Which life is it that is unworthy?” …

I’ll tell you how the slippery slope works. Right now we’re killing people to end their suffering. That’s why the group in favor of initiative 161 is called “Californians Against Suffering.” And who wants people to suffer? I understand that sentiment. That is very appealing, but once you do this you cross a line that says that there is a life not worthy of being lived, in this case a suffering life.

I call this the “quality of life poison pill.” When you swallow this pleasant sounding argument you swallow poison because what next? You have to define what suffering is. What is suffering? It starts with a terminally ill patient dying of cancer. Then it becomes a newborn baby with spinabifida. Who would want that baby to go through such a life of suffering? Then it becomes a Down’s Syndrome child with a low I.Q. If we let that child survive it will suffer all of its life; people will make fun of it. Then it becomes a quadriplegic who is immobilized from a car accident. Then it becomes an insane person suffering because he is talking to someone who doesn’t exist. Then it becomes a Christian talking to a God who doesn’t exist.

“Ah, come on, Koukl, that’s bizarre. What a leap! Talk about stretching, going from euthanizing a terminally ill cancer patient to killing Christians because they’re praying. That’s an awfully big step.”

You’re right it is a big step, but let me add this. Almost twenty years ago now, 1973, Roe v. Wade legalized abortion for all nine months of pregnancy. Dr. Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop wrote a book called What Ever Happened to the Human Race? Aptly titled. They said if we do this to unborn children infanticide will follow and we’ll be killing old people. And people said they were crazy. What a leap in logic from allowing a woman to make a choice about her pregnancy to killing old people. That’s ridiculous.

But here we are twenty years later sliding down the slippery slope and this November you get to vote on initiative 161. And unless we get out and tell people what this really means and identify the truth for what it is then this will pass in this state. And you know what? People are shrugging their shoulders. Initiative 161 is no big deal. It makes sense.

My friends, there is a slippery slope. In Holland there is an estimated 2300 cases of adult euthanasia annually. And a recent report of the Dutch Pediatric Association has now proposed mercy killing of severely handicapped newborns. You see, friends, what was unthinkable yesterday is thinkable today and ordinary and commonplace tomorrow.

What’s really ironic is that up until just recently Christians in what was then the Soviet Union were routinely jailed in asylums and the Gulag as insane for talking to a God who doesn’t exist! And we looked at that and thought how ludicrous. What a violation of human rights. And the absolute irony is that the Soviet Union now has more functional religious liberty than the United States does.

So while all of this is going on in my head I saw this film “Judgment at Nuremberg.” I was deeply moved by it, as I mentioned. In this movie Justice Hayward, played by Spencer Tracy, is the chief justice of the tribunal. In his opinion against the defendants at that trial he included these words: “Before the people of this world let it be now noted that this is what we stand for: justice, truth and the value of a single human being.” Well, these words sound almost quaint in the present moral environment. It sounds like a superman line or something. “Justice and truth and the value of a single human being!” What a joke! Spencer, come out of the Dark Ages. Join the twentieth Century. Wake up! People don’t think that way anymore.

As the movie ended, Harry Yonick, a former Nazi judge, powerfully portrayed by Burt Lancaster, on trial for the perversion of justice during the Third Reich in his remarks to the bench actually admits his guilt. And he reasoned this way. He said that at the time he was willing to put up with a passing phase of injustice–the taking of innocent life, life that was unworthy of life, just a passing phase–because that would lead to a finer world that would emerge from this temporary injustice of the Third Reich. And as he hung his head in shame before the tribunal he said, “Tragically, the passing phase did not pass, but instead became business as usual.”

At the end of the movie the now convicted Harry Yonick asked to see the Chief Justice. When the Justice met him in his cell Harry Yonick said, “Those people, those millions of people. I never knew it would come to that. You must believe it. You must believe it.” To which Justice Hayward replied, “It came to that the first time you sentenced a man to death that you knew to be innocent.”

My friends, saying that any innocent human life is not worthy of life is the first step. And we took that step nearly two decades ago. We have slid a long way down the slope since then. And the tragic and deeply frightening thing is that no one seems to have noticed. It’s become just business as usual.

At least that’s the way I see it.

This is a transcript of a commentary from the radio show “Stand to Reason,” with Gregory Koukl. It is made available to you at no charge through the faithful giving of those who support Stand to Reason. Reproduction permitted for non-commercial use only. ©1992 Gregory Koukl

Dr. C. Everett Koop is pictured above.

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE

Published on Oct 6, 2012 by

It is a fact that President Obama has done everything in his power to advance abortion rights as this editorial cartoon shows.

Great pro-life poster:

(give them a chance, a  child is not a choice.)

Dr. Koop.

C. Everett Koop

Related posts:

Remembering Dr. C. Everett Koop with pictures and quotes Part 4 (funny editorial cartoon too)

Dr. Koop Gary Brookings of the Richmond Times Dispatch did a very funny editorial cartoon about the time in 1988 when Dr. C. Everett Koop sent the unapproved mail  piece out to millions of homes about AIDS. There were many such cartoons at the time since everyone knew Dr. Koop got the mail piece out […]

Remembering Dr. C. Everett Koop with pictures and quotes Part 3 ( three more editorial cartoons too)

Dr. Koop with Hillary Clinton In 1980 I really was influenced at my highschool by a teacher of mine named Mark Brink. He introduced me to the film series “Whatever happened to the human race?” by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop. In this  film series that came out in 1979 they dealt with […]

Remembering Dr. C. Everett Koop with pictures and quotes Part 2 (Doonesbury cartoon by Gary Trudeau included)

Dr. Koop On 2-25-13 we lost a great man when we lost Dr. C. Everett Koop. I have written over and over the last few years quoting Dr. C. Everett Koop and his good friend Francis Schaeffer. They both came together for the first time in 1973 when Dr. Koop operated on Schaeffer’s daughter and […]

Remembering Dr. C. Everett Koop with pictures and quotes Part 1

Dr. C. Everett Koop is pictured above. Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE Published on Oct 6, 2012 by AdamMetropolis Dr. Koop On 2-25-13 we lost a great man when we lost Dr. C. Everett Koop. I have written over and over the last few years […]

Open letter to President Obama (Part 232 B) Dr. C. Everett Koop and Reagan pictured together

Dr. C. Everett Koop with Ronald Reagan. Dr. Koop was delayed in his confirmation by Ted Kennedy because of his film Whatever Happened to the Human Race? President Obama c/o The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President, I know that you receive 20,000 letters a day and that you […]

“Sanctity of Life Saturday” Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop asked Reagan to issue pro-life proclamation in 1983 (includes video ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented  against abortion (Episode 1),  infanticide (Episode 2),   euthenasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close […]

Dr. C. Everett Koop on abortion’s 1973 Roe v. Wade impact on child abuse

Dr. C. Everett Koop with Ronald Reagan. Dr. Koop was delayed in his confirmation by Ted Kennedy because of his film Whatever Happened to the Human Race? Watch the film below starting at the 19 minute mark and that will lead into a powerful question from Dr. C. Everett Koop. This 1979 film is WHATEVER […]

Open letter to President Obama (Part 221 B) Dr. C. Everett Koop and Francis Schaeffer rightly called abortion “the watershed issue of our era”

 Dr. Koop was delayed in his confirmation by Ted Kennedy because of his film Whatever Happened to the Human Race? Francis Schaeffer February 21, 1982 (Part 1) Uploaded by DeBunker7 on Feb 21, 2008 READ THIS FIRST: In decline of all civilizations we first see a war against the freedom of ideas. Discussion is limited […]

Francis Schaeffer and C. Everette Koop on the Hippocratic oath (March for Life January 20, 2013)

Dr. C. Everett Koop was appointed to the Reagan administration but was held up in the Senate in his confirmation hearings by Ted Kennedy because of his work in pro-life causes. I was thinking about the March for Life that is coming up on Jan 20, 2013  and that is why I posted this today […]

Ronald Wilson Reagan pictured with Dr. C. Everett Koop

High resolution version (11,426,583 Bytes) Description: The photograph is signed by President Ronald Reagan with the inscription “To Chick Koop, With Best Wishes.” Chick, from chicken coop, was the nickname Koop gained will attending Dartmouth College in the mid-1930s. Koop maintained a cordial relationship with President Reagan, despite his disappointment over Reagan’s refusal to address […]

Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop were prophetic (jh29)

Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop were prophetic (jh29) What Ever Happened to the Human Race? I recently heard this Breakpoint Commentary by Chuck Colson and it just reminded me of how prophetic Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop were in the late 1970′s with their book and film series “Whatever happened to the human […]

Should Michele Bachmann be punished for taking pro-life views from Schaeffer and Koop? (March for Life January 20, 2013)

  Dr. C. Everett Koop I was thinking about the March for Life that is coming up on Jan 20, 2013  and that is why I posted this today Secular leaps of faith 39 Comments Written by Janie B. Cheaney August 15, 2011, 2:17 PM I’m willing to cut Ryan Lizza some slack. His profile […]

“Schaeffer Sundays” Francis Schaeffer’s own words concerning humanism and its bad results

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” (Episode 2) SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS Published on Oct 6, 2012 by AdamMetropolis The 45 minute video above is from the film series created from Francis Schaeffer’s book “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” with Dr. C. Everett Koop. This book  really helped develop my political views concerning […]

“Sanctity of Life Saturday”:Derek Melleby’s review of the book “Francis Schaeffer: An Authentic Life” (includes film THE BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY)

  I truly believe that many of the problems we have today in the USA are due to the advancement of humanism in the last few decades in our society. Ronald Reagan appointed the evangelical Dr. C. Everett Koop to the position of Surgeon General in his administration. He partnered with Dr. Francis Schaeffer in making […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 5) “Slavery issue compared to rights of unborn child”

The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. I asked over and over again for one liberal blogger […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 4) “How do pro-lifers react to the movie THE CIDER HOUSE RULES?”

Francis Schaeffer pictured above._________ The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. I asked over and over again […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 3) “What should be the punishment for abortion doctors?”

The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” On 1-24-13 I took on the child abuse argument put forth by Ark Times Blogger “Deathbyinches,” and the day before I pointed out that because the unborn baby has all the genetic code […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 2) “The pro-abortion child abuse argument destroyed here”

PHOTO BY STATON BREIDENTHAL from Pro-life march in Little Rock on 1-20-13. Tim Tebow on pro-life super bowl commercial. Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. Here is another encounter below. On January 22, 2013 (on the 40th anniversary of the […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 6) For many pro-abortionists ” …the problem is not determining when actual human life begins, but when the value of that life begins to out weigh other considerations”

The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Francis Schaeffer pictured above._________ The 45 minute video above is from the film series created from Francis Schaeffer’s book “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” with Dr. C. Everett Koop. This book  really […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 7) “Poverty not good reason for abortion, why not give up for adoption?”

Dr Richard Land discusses abortion and slavery – 10/14/2004 – part 3 The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue […]

Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 1)

Dr Richard Land discusses abortion and slavery – 10/14/2004 – part 3 The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue […]

Paul Greenberg became pro-life because we are all “endowed with certain unalienable rights”

On January 20, 2013 I heard Paul Greenberg talk about the words of Thomas Jefferson that we are all “endowed with certain unalienable rights” and the most important one is the right to life. He mentioned this also in this speech below from 2011: Paul Greenberg Dinner Speech 2011 Fall 2011 Issue Some of you […]

How Pulitzer Prize-winning Paul Greenberg, one of the most respected and honored commentators in America, changed his mind about abortion and endorses now the pro-life view

It is not possible to know where the pro-life evangelicals are coming from unless you look at the work of the person who inspired them the most. That person was Francis Schaeffer.  I do care about economic issues but the pro-life issue is the most important to me. Several years ago Adrian Rogers (past president of […]

Dr. Koop with Al Gore in the White House pictured above.

Dr. C. Everett Koop was appointed to the Reagan administration but was held up in the Senate in his confirmation hearings by Ted Kennedy because of his work in pro-life causes.

___________

Pictured with Ronald Reagan above.

Dr.Koop

Dr. Koop

Memorial Tribute Former Surgeon General C.Everett Koop © A Genuine G-Shot.wmv

July 13, 2013 – 12:12 am Categories: Francis Schaeffer, Prolife | Post a comment

Liberals at Ark Times can not stand up to Scott Klusendorf’s pro-life arguments (Part 1) Prochoice blogger stated, “You people will kill and murder doctors and anyone who is pro choice…”

Anti Abortion Pro-Life Training Video by Scott Klusendorf Part 1 of 4

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE

Published on Oct 6, 2012 by

This crucial series is narrated by the late Dr. Francis Schaeffer and former Surgeon General Dr. C. Everett Koop. Today, choices are being made that undermine human rights at their most basic level. Practices once considered unthinkable are now acceptable – abortion, infanticide and euthanasia. The destruction of human life, young and old, is being sanctioned on an ever-increasing scale by the medical profession, by the courts, by parents and by silent Christians. The five episodes in this series examine the sanctity of life as a social, moral and spiritual issue which the Christian must not ignore. The conclusion presents the Christian alternative as the only real solution to man’s problems.

I have gone back and forth with Ark Times liberal bloggers on the issue of abortion, but I am going to try something new. I am going to respond with logical and rational reasons the pro-life view is true. All of this material is from a paper by Scott Klusendorf called FIVE BAD WAYS TO ARGUE ABOUT ABORTION .

___________________

Here is a common prochoice argument I have heard from Ark Times liberal bloggers. Take a look at “Spunkrat”:

I am so sick and tired of your ridiculous ability to fit two completely different ideas into a head the size and consistency of, a baking pumpkin!

You people will kill and murder doctors and anyone who is pro choice to protect, in YOUR words, the “unborn (and by this word unhuman)” from being “murdered,” while your ilk arm as many in this country as you can, so they can “protect” themselves by murdering anyone who gets in their way, AND once they do, you’ll try and strap them to a gurney and execute/murder them, IF you can! The reasoning ability you people have is at best–at BEST, mentally stooped and decrepit.

Find an Ozark cliff and jump. Just jump! But before you do, set fire to your housetrailer so we can clean up the neighborhood!

_____________

Here is my response:
____________________
 Scott Klusendorf responded to this kind of thinking by stating:

On July 11, 2000, a knife-wielding man attacked Vancouver (BC) abortionist Garson Romalis in a downtown clinic.  Abortion advocacy groups seized on his brush with death to score cheap political points against their opponents, notably Canadian Alliance Party leader Stockwell Day, who opposes abortion.22

Day was quick to condemn the attack against Romalis as “outrageous and untenable,” but that did not satisfy local abortion advocates.  Marilyn Wilson, president of the Canadian Abortion Rights Action League, said Day had “indirectly sanctioned” the violence against Romalis with his extremist rhetoric.

Why was Mr. Day responsible for the attack?  It’s really quite simple: He disagrees with Ms. Wilson on abortion and has said publicly that elective abortion is the unjust killing of an innocent human being.  “Day is going to try and deny that he would support any violence,” she said in a press release, “but his rhetoric does incite other people who share his beliefs against abortion to violence.”  She then called Day a “fanatic” for “the amount of anti-choice, extremist rhetoric that’s out there.”

Bear in mind that to Ms. Wilson, “fanatic” and “extremist” mean anyone who deviates in the slightest from her own position, which is that abortion should be legal for any reason whatsoever during all nine months of pregnancy.  If you say that elective abortion takes the life of a defenseless child, as Day believes it does, your irresponsible rhetoric will cost an abortionist his life.

Ms. Wilson is using scaremongering tactics to poison the public debate over abortion.  Her statements are intellectually dishonest for at least four reasons.  First, let’s assume that pro-life rhetoric does in fact lead to acts of violence against abortionists (though there is no good reason to suppose that this is so).  Would this in anyway refute the pro-life argument that elective abortion unjustly takes the life of an innocent human being?  Keep in mind that pro-life advocates do not merely state their case; they buttress it with scientific and philosophic reasoning.  If Ms. Wilson thinks we are wrong about the humanity of the unborn and the inhumanity of abortion, she should patiently explain why our arguments are mistaken and why fetuses should be disqualified from membership in the human community.  But instead of refuting the pro-life view, she attempts to silence it with personal attacks.

Second, it is blatantly unfair of Ms. Wilson to demonize pro-life advocates for espousing their sincerely held beliefs.  Let’s assume that I’m an animal rights activist opposed to the sale of fur.  If a deranged environmentalist firebombs a local clothing store, am I responsible?  More to the point, is Ms. Wilson responsible if, upon reading her press release, a pro-abortion activist shoots Stockwell Day for the purpose of saving the community from such an awful extremist?  (In a press release one day prior to the stabbing, Wilson accused Mr. Day of favoring “state-sanctioned violence against women by forcing them to bear children they may not want.”23)  If she is serious that merely disagreeing with her on abortion is itself an incitement to violence, then let’s not fool around: Ms. Wilson should lead the charge to ban all pro-life speech.  (Actually, she would like that, but lacks the courage to say so publicly.)

Third, it does not follow that because a lone extremist stabs an abortionist, the pro-life cause itself is unjust.  Dr. Martin Luther King, for example, used strong language to condemn the evil of racism during the 1960s.  In response to his peaceful but confrontational tactics, racists unjustly blamed him for the violent unrest that sometimes followed his public demonstrations.  Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago argued that if Dr. King would stop exposing racial injustice, black people would be less likely to riot.24  The Mayor’s remarks, like those of Ms. Wilson, were an outrage.  Are we to believe that a handful of rioters made Dr. King’s crusade for civil rights entirely unjust?

In his Letter from the Birmingham Jail, King rebuts this dishonest attempt to change the subject:

In your statement you asserted that our actions, though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence….[I]t is immoral to urge an individual to withdraw his efforts to gain…basic constitutional rights because the quest precipitates violence….Non-violent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and establish such a creative tension that a community…is forced to confront the issue.  It seeks to dramatize the issue so it can be no longer ignored.

Footnotes:

22  The facts from this story, as well as some of the analysis, come from Andrew Coyne, “Opinions are not Crimes,” The National Post, July 14, 2000.

23  Canadian Abortion Rights Action League press release, July 10, 2000.

24  Gregg Cunningham, Why Abortion is Genocide, available from www.abortionno.org

Related posts:

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part T “Abortion is a dirty business” (includes video “Truth and History” and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part S “Who gave the unborn the inalienable right to life?” (includes video “Slaughter of the Innocents” and an editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part R “What’s wrong with Roe v. Wade decision?” (includes video “Truth and History” and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part Q “Three Ark Times bloggers take pro-life postion” (includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE) (editorial cartoon)

  I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part P “Freedom of speech lives on Ark Times Blog” (includes the video ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part O “Without God in the picture there can not be lasting meaning to our lives” (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part N “A discussion of the Woody Allen Movie CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS”(includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part M “Old Testament prophecy fulfilled?”Part 3(includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE)

  I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part L “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 2 (includes the film THE BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part K “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 1 (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part J “Can atheists find lasting meaning to their lives?” (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part I “Old Testament Bible Prophecy” includes the film TRUTH AND HISTORY and article ” Jane Roe became pro-life”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part H “Are humans special?” includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) Reagan: ” To diminish the value of one category of human life is to diminish us all”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part G “How do moral nonabsolutists come up with what is right?” includes the film “ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE”)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part F “Carl Sagan’s views on how God should try and contact us” includes film “The Basis for Human Dignity”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part E “Moral absolutes and abortion” Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 5(includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part D “If you can’t afford a child can you abort?”Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 4 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part C “Abortion” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 3 includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part B “Gendercide” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes Part 2 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part A “The Pro-life Issue” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes Part 1 includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

July 12, 2013 – 11:22 pm Categories: Francis Schaeffer, Prolife | Post a comment

Tagged , |

Dan Mitchell shows how ignoring the Laffer Curve is like running a stop sign!!!!

Dan Mitchell shows how ignoring the Laffer Curve is like running a stop sign!!!!

Can You Spell L-A-F-F-E-R C-U-R-V-E?

July 12, 2013 by Dan Mitchell

I’m thinking of inventing a game, sort of a fiscal version of Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

Only the way it will work is that there will be a map of the world and the winner will be the blindfolded person who puts their pin closest to a nation such asAustralia or Switzerland that has a relatively low risk of long-run fiscal collapse.

That won’t be an easy game to win since we have data from the BIS, OECD, and IMF showing that government is growing far too fast in the vast majority of nations.

We also know that many states and cities suffer from the same problems.

A handful of local governments already have hit the fiscal brick wall, with many of them (gee, what a surprise) from California.

The most spectacular mess, though, is about to happen in Michigan.

The Washington Post reports that Detroit is on the verge of fiscal collapse.

After decades of sad and spectacular decline, it has come to this for Detroit: The city is $19 billion in debt and on the edge of becoming the nation’s largest municipal bankruptcy. An emergency manager says the city can make good on only a sliver of what it owes — in many cases just pennies on the dollar.

This is a dog-bites-man story. Detroit’s problems are the completely predictable result of excessive government. Just as statism explains the problems of Greece. And the problems of California. And the problems of Cyprus. And theproblems of Illinois.

I could continue with a long list of profligate governments, but you get the idea. Some of these governments are collapsing at a quicker pace and some at a slower pace. But all of them are in deep trouble because they don’t follow my Golden Rule about restraining the burden of government spending so that it grows slower than the private sector.

Detroit obviously is an example of a government that is collapsing sooner rather than later.

Why? Simply stated, as the size and scope of the public sector increased, that created very destructive economic and political dynamics.

More and more people got lured into the wagon of government dependency, which puts an ever-increasing burden on a shrinking pool of producers.

Meanwhile, organized interest groups such as government bureaucrats used their political muscle to extract absurdly excessive compensation packages, putting an even larger burden of the dwindling supply of taxpayers.

But that’s not the main focus of this post. Instead, I want to highlight a particular excerpt from the article and make a point about how too many people are blindly – perhaps willfully – ignorant of the Laffer Curve.

Check out this sentence.

Property tax collections are down 20 percent and income tax collections are down by more than a third in just the past five years — despite some of the highest tax rates in the state.

This is a classic “Fox Butterfield mistake,” which occurs when someone fails to recognize a cause-effect relationship. In this case, the reporter should have recognized that tax collections are down because Detroit has very high tax rates.

The city has a lot more problems than just high tax rates, of course, but can there be any doubt that productive people have very little incentive to earn and report taxable income in Detroit?

And that’s the essential insight of the Laffer Curve. Politicians can’t – or at least shouldn’t – assume that a 20 percent increase in tax rates will lead to a 20 percent increase in tax revenue. They also have to consider the degree to which a higher tax rate will cause a change in taxable income.

In some cases, higher tax rates will discourage people from earning more taxable income.

In some cases, higher tax rates will discourage people from reporting all the income they earn.

In some cases, higher tax rates will encourage people to utilize tax loopholes to shrink their taxable income.

In some cases, higher tax rates will encourage migration, thus causing taxable income to disappear.

Here’s my three-part video series on the Laffer Curve. Much of this is common sense, though it needs to be mandatory viewing for elected officials (as well as the bureaucrats at the Joint Committee on Taxation).

The Laffer Curve, Part I: Understanding the Theory

Uploaded by on Jan 28, 2008

The Laffer Curve charts a relationship between tax rates and tax revenue. While the theory behind the Laffer Curve is widely accepted, the concept has become very controversial because politicians on both sides of the debate exaggerate. This video shows the middle ground between those who claim “all tax cuts pay for themselves” and those who claim tax policy has no impact on economic performance. This video, focusing on the theory of the Laffer Curve, is Part I of a three-part series. Part II reviews evidence of Laffer-Curve responses. Part III discusses how the revenue-estimating process in Washington can be improved. For more information please visit the Center for Freedom and Prosperity’s web site: http://www.freedomandprosperity.org

Part 2

Part 3

P.S. Just in case it’s not clear from the videos, we don’t want to be at the revenue-maximizing point on the Laffer Curve.

P.P.S. Amazingly, even the bureaucrats at the IMF recognize that there’s a point when taxes are so onerous that further increases don’t generate revenue.

P.P.P.S. At least CPAs understand the Laffer Curve, probably because they help their clients reduce their tax exposure to greedy governments.

P.P.P.P.S. I offered a Laffer Curve lesson to President Obama, but I doubt it had any impact.

Related posts:

Dan Mitchell: Question of the Week: Has the European Fiscal Crisis Ended?

July 9, 2013 – 12:00 pm

We got to cut spending or we will be in a fiscal crisis like Greece!!! Question of the Week: Has the European Fiscal Crisis Ended? January 12, 2013 by Dan Mitchell I’ve frequently commented on Europe’s fiscal mess and argued that excessive government spending is responsible for both the sovereign debt crisis and the economic stagnation […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, spending out of control | Edit | Comments (0)

Taxes made simple by Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute

July 8, 2013 – 1:02 am

The Flat Tax: How it Works and Why it is Good for America Uploaded by afq2007 on Mar 29, 2010 This Center for Freedom and Prosperity Foundation video shows how the flat tax would benefit families and businesses, and also explains how this simple and fair system would boost economic growth and eliminate the special-interest […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, President Obama, spending out of control, Taxes | Tagged | Edit | Comments (0)

Cartoons from Dan Mitchell’s blog that demonstrate what Obama is doing to our economy (Obama’s out of control spending not helped by raising taxes on rich)

June 25, 2013 – 1:13 am

I have put up lots of cartoons from Dan Mitchell’s blog before and they have got lots of hits before. Many of them have dealt with the economy, eternal unemployment benefits, socialism,  Greece,  welfare state or on gun control. President Obama really does think that all his answers lie in raising taxes on the rich when the […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, President Obama, spending out of control | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute gives overview of economic policy and he praises Clinton and Reagan

June 6, 2013 – 9:59 am

__________ President Reagan, Nancy Reagan, Tom Selleck, Dudley Moore, Lucille Ball at a Tribute to Bob Hope’s 80th birthday at the Kennedy Center. 5/20/83. __________________________ Dan Mitchell is very good at giving speeches and making it very simple to understand economic policy and how it affects a nation. Mitchell also talks about slowing the growth […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Bill Clinton, Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, Milton Friedman, President Obama, Ronald Reagan, spending out of control, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Cartoons from Dan Mitchell’s blog that demonstrate what Obama is doing to our economy (cartoon on entitlements)

May 31, 2013 – 1:13 am

The Laffer Curve – Explained Uploaded by Eddie Stannard on Nov 14, 2011 This video explains the relationship between tax rates, taxable income, and tax revenue. The key lesson is that the Laffer Curve is not an all-or-nothing proposition, where we have to choose between the exaggerated claim that “all tax cuts pay for themselves” […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, President Obama, spending out of control | Edit | Comments (0)

Open letter to President Obama (Part 296) (Laffer curve strikes again!!)

April 15, 2013 – 12:00 am

President Obama c/o The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President, I know that you receive 20,000 letters a day and that you actually read 10 of them every day. I really do respect you for trying to get a pulse on what is going on out here. The way […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in President Obama, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Open letter to President Obama (Part 282, How the Laffer Curve worked in the 20th century over and over again!!!)

March 29, 2013 – 7:30 am

Dan Mitchell does a great job explaining the Laffer Curve President Obama c/o The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President, I know that you receive 20,000 letters a day and that you actually read 10 of them every day. I really do respect you for trying to get a […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in President Obama, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Laffer curve hits tax hikers pretty hard (includes cartoon)

March 27, 2013 – 11:21 am

I have put up lots of cartoons from Dan Mitchell’s blog before and they have got lots of hits before. Many of them have dealt with the economy, eternal unemployment benefits, socialism,  Greece,  welfare state or on gun control. Today’s cartoon deals with the Laffer curve. Revenge of the Laffer Curve…Again and Again and Again March 27, 2013 […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Editorial cartoon from Dan Mitchell’s blog on California’s sorry state of affairs

March 26, 2013 – 12:38 pm

I have put up lots of cartoons from Dan Mitchell’s blog before and they have got lots of hits before. Many of them have dealt with the sequester, economy, eternal unemployment benefits, socialism,  minimum wage laws, tax increases, social security, high taxes in California, Obamacare,  Greece,  welfare state or on gun control. President Obama’s favorite state must be California because […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell | Edit | Comments (0)

Portugal and the Laffer Curve

January 11, 2013 – 1:45 am

Class Warfare just don’t pay it seems. Why can’t we learn from other countries’ mistakes? Class Warfare Tax Policy Causes Portugal to Crash on the Laffer Curve, but Will Obama Learn from this Mistake? December 31, 2012 by Dan Mitchell Back in mid-2010, I wrote that Portugal was going to exacerbate its fiscal problems by raising […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell | Edit | Comments (0)

Political arguments against higher taxes from Dan Mitchell

December 10, 2012 – 8:14 am

Republicans would be stupid to raise taxes. Don’t Get Bamboozled by the Fiscal Cliff: Five Policy Reasons and Five Political Reasons Why Republicans Should Keep their No-Tax-Hike Promises December 6, 2012 by Dan Mitchell The politicians claim that they are negotiating about how best to reduce the deficit. That irks me because our fiscal problem is […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, President Obama, spending out of control | Edit | Comments (0)

President Obama ignores warnings about Laffer Curve

November 28, 2012 – 9:34 am

The Laffer Curve – Explained Uploaded by Eddie Stannard on Nov 14, 2011 This video explains the relationship between tax rates, taxable income, and tax revenue. The key lesson is that the Laffer Curve is not an all-or-nothing proposition, where we have to choose between the exaggerated claim that “all tax cuts pay for themselves” […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, President Obama, Taxes | Tagged | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell looks at Obama’s tax record

October 31, 2012 – 7:30 am

Dan Mitchell’s article and the video from his organization takes a hard look at President Obama’s tax record. Dissecting Obama’s Record on Tax Policy October 30, 2012 by Dan Mitchell The folks at the Center for Freedom and Prosperity have been on a roll in the past few months, putting out an excellent series of videos […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, President Obama | Tagged | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell: “Romney is Right that You Can Lower Tax Rates and Reduce Tax Preferences without Hurting the Middle Class”

September 19, 2012 – 6:37 am

The Laffer Curve, Part I: Understanding the Theory Uploaded by afq2007 on Jan 28, 2008 The Laffer Curve charts a relationship between tax rates and tax revenue. While the theory behind the Laffer Curve is widely accepted, the concept has become very controversial because politicians on both sides of the debate exaggerate. This video shows […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Taxes | Tagged , , | Edit | Comments (0)

The Laffer Curve Wreaks Havoc in the United Kingdom

July 24, 2012 – 12:16 pm

I got to hear Arthur Laffer speak back in 1981 and he predicted what would happen in the next few years with the Reagan tax cuts and he was right with every prediction. The Laffer Curve Wreaks Havoc in the United Kingdom July 1, 2012 by Dan Mitchell Back in 2010, I excoriated the new […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute | Tagged | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell: Maryland to Texas, but Not Okay to Move from the United States to Singapore?

July 24, 2012 – 10:07 am

You can’t blame someone for leaving one state for another if they have a better an opportunity to make money. Maryland to Texas, but Not Okay to Move from the United States to Singapore? July 12, 2012 by Dan Mitchell I’ve commented before about entrepreneurs, investors, and small business owners migrating from high tax states such […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Liberals act like the Laffer Curve does not exist.

July 8, 2012 – 12:52 am

Raising taxes will not work. Liberals act like the Laffer Curve does not exist. The Laffer Curve Shows that Tax Increases Are a Very Bad Idea – even if They Generate More Tax Revenue April 10, 2012 by Dan Mitchell The Laffer Curve is a graphical representation of the relationship between tax rates, tax revenue, and […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell shows why soak-the-rich tax policy does not work

May 18, 2012 – 12:17 am

Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute shows why Obama’s plan to tax the rich will not solve our deficit problem.   Explaining in the New York Post Why Obama’s Soak-the-Rich Tax Policy Is Doomed to Failure April 17, 2012 by Dan Mitchell I think high tax rates on certain classes of citizens are immoral and discriminatory. If the […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute takes on liberals on PBS

April 22, 2012 – 5:50 am

You want the rich to pay more? Dan Mitchell observed:I explained that “rich” taxpayers declared much more income and paid much higher taxes after Reagan reduced the top tax rate from 70 percent to 28 percent. Liberals don’t understand good tax policies. Against 3-1 Odds, Promoting Good Tax Policy on Government TV April 12, 2012 by […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, President Obama, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)

Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute takes on the Buffett Rule

April 13, 2012 – 1:44 pm

Class warfare again from President Obama.  Rejecting the Buffett Rule and Fighting Obama’s Class Warfare on CNBC April 10, 2012 by Dan Mitchell I’ve already explained why Warren Buffett is either dishonest or clueless about tax policy. Today, on CNBC, I got to debate the tax scheme that President Obama has named after the Omaha investor. […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Cato Institute, Taxes | Edit | Comments (0)
July 12, 2013 – 3:34 pm Categories: Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, President Obama, Taxes | Post a comment

Discussing Woody Allen’s movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” and various other subjects with Ark Times Bloggers (Part 3) Ben: “IT’S A HUMAN LIFE. YOU DON’T THINK GOD SEES?”

_____________________________

Crimes and Misdemeanors: A Discussion: Part 3

Uploaded by on Sep 23, 2007

Part 3 of 3: ‘Is Woody Allen A Romantic Or A Realist?’
A discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, Crimes and Misdemeanors, perhaps his finest.
By Anton Scamvougeras.

http://camdiscussion.blogspot.com/
antons@mail.ubc.ca

______________

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture . This time around I have discussed morality with the Ark Times Bloggers and have used the examples given in Woody Allen’s movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” to do so. With out God in the picture to punish the evildoers  in an afterlife, then can people do anything they want because “might makes right.”

Without the infinite-personal God of the Bible to reveal moral absolutes then man is left to embrace moral relativism. In a time plus chance universe man is reduced to a machine and can not find a place for values such as love. Both of Francis Schaeffer’s film series have tackled these subjects and he shows how this is reflected in the arts.

Here are some posts I have done on the series “HOW SHOULD WE THEN LIVE? : Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 10 “Final Choices” , episode 9 “The Age of Personal Peace and Affluence”, episode 8 “The Age of Fragmentation”, episode 7 “The Age of Non-Reason” , episode 6 “The Scientific Age” ,  episode 5 “The Revolutionary Age” , episode 4 “The Reformation”,  episode 3 “The Renaissance”, episode 2 “The Middle Ages,”, and  episode 1 “The Roman Age,” .

In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented  against abortion (Episode 1),  infanticide (Episode 2),   euthenasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close look at the truth claims of the Bible.

In July of 2013 I got into this discussion about morality and the meaning of life with the Arkansas Times Bloggers:

I commented:

Vanessa wrote, “What’s funny is watching Saline tie himself in knots trying to defend his delusions.”

______________________

Do you think I am the one who looks silly for asking good questions that don’t ever get answered? I get ridicule but there are no good answers given to very simple questions like:

If you accept Darwinism then why not Social Darwinism?

On what basis do you say that Hitler’s policy of Social Darwinism was wrong?

In an universe without a lasting meaning or the presence of an infinite personal God how can anyone say what Hitler did was wrong in an impersonal world of time and chance? 

ON WHAT BASIS IS MURDER WRONG?

_________________

Now here is another simple question: HOW COULD CONVINCE JUDAH NOT TO HAVE HIS MISTRESS KILLED IF THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE WHERE HE WILL HAVE TO FACE GOD?


Faced with going to jail and losing his marriage Judah talks to the Rabbi Ben before making the decision to have his troublesome mistress killed. Here is how the conversation went in the movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors,”:

On a stormy night Judah walks through the house alone, agonizing over what to do about his mistress. A previous conversation Judah had with a patient and friend, who is also a rabbi, plays as narration.

Ben: Sometimes, when there’s real love and true acknowledgement of a mistake, there can be forgiveness, too.

Judah: I know Miriam. Her values, her feelings. Our place among our friends and colleagues.

Ben: But what choice do you have if the woman is going to tell her? You have to confess the wrong and hope for understanding. I couldn’t go on living if I didn’t feel with all my heart a moral structure with real meaning and forgiveness, and some kind of higher power. Otherwise there’s no basis to know how to live. And I know you well enough to know that the spark of that notion is inside you somewhere too.

Judah sits down and lights a cigarette. In his imagination, Ben walks into the room.

Ben: Could you go through with it?

Judah: What choice do I have, Ben? Tell me.

Ben: Give the people that you’ve hurt a chance to forgive you.

Judah: Miriam won’t forgive me. She’ll be broken. She worships me. She’ll be humiliated before our friends. This woman plans to make a stink.

Ben: Did you make promises to her?

Judah: No. Maybe I led her on more than I realized. She’s so emotionally hungry. But it’s deeper than just Miriam now.

Ben: Meaning financial improprieties?

Judah: No. Maybe I… maybe I did make some questionable moves.

Ben: Only you would know that, Judah.

Judah: I don’t anymore, Ben. Sometimes it’s worse than… worse than jail.

Ben: IT’S A HUMAN LIFE. YOU DON’T THINK GOD SEES?

Judah: GOD IS A LUXURY I CAN’T AFFORD

Ben: Now you’re talking like your brother Jack.

Judah: Jack lives in the real world. You live in the kingdom of heaven. I managed to keep free of that real world but.. Suddenly it’s found me.

Related posts:

“Woody Wednesday” Another look at Woody Allen’s movie Crimes and Misdemeanors

March 6, 2013 – 6:30 am

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

“Woody Wednesday” In 2009 interview Woody Allen talks about the lack of meaning of life and the allure of younger women

February 20, 2013 – 1:58 am

Ecclesiastes 1 Published on Sep 4, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | September 2, 2012 | Pastor Derek Neider _____________________ Ecclesiastes 2-3 Published on Sep 19, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | September 16, 2012 | Derek Neider _____________________________ I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Another look at Woody Allen’s movie Crimes and Misdemeanors

July 9, 2013 – 12:11 pm

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” (Part 6)

July 23, 2012 – 8:00 am

Crimes and Misdemeanors: A Discussion: Part 3 Uploaded by camdiscussion on Sep 23, 2007 Part 3 of 3: ‘Is Woody Allen A Romantic Or A Realist?’ A discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, Crimes and Misdemeanors, perhaps his finest. By Anton Scamvougeras. http://camdiscussion.blogspot.com/ antons@mail.ubc.ca ______________ One of my favorite Woody Allen movies and I reviewed […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” (Part 5)

July 19, 2012 – 6:34 am

Crimes and Misdemeanors: A Discussion: Part 2 Uploaded by camdiscussion on Sep 23, 2007 Part 2 of 3: ‘What Does The Movie Tell Us About Ourselves?’ A discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, perhaps his finest. By Anton Scamvougeras. http://camdiscussion.blogspot.com/ antons@mail.ubc.ca _________________- One of my favorite Woody Allen movies and I reviewed it earlier but […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” (Part 4)

July 17, 2012 – 8:17 am

Crimes and Misdemeanors: A Discussion: Part 1 Uploaded by camdiscussion on Sep 23, 2007 Part 1 of 3: ‘What Does Judah Believe?’ A discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, perhaps his finest. By Anton Scamvougeras. http://camdiscussion.blogspot.com/ antons@mail.ubc.ca _____________ One of my favorite films is this gem by Woody Allen “Crimes and Misdemeanors”: Film Review By […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” (Part 3)

July 16, 2012 – 7:04 am

Crimes and Misdemeanors: A Discussion: Part 3 Uploaded by camdiscussion on Sep 23, 2007 Part 3 of 3: ‘Is Woody Allen A Romantic Or A Realist?’ A discussion of Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, Crimes and Misdemeanors, perhaps his finest. By Anton Scamvougeras. http://camdiscussion.blogspot.com/ antons@mail.ubc.ca ______________ One of my favorite Woody Allen movies and I reviewed […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Ecclesiastes and the subject of atheism

June 25, 2013 – 5:39 am

Ecclesiastes 8-10 | Still Searching After All These Years Published on Oct 9, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | October 7, 2012 | Pastor Derek Neider _______________________ Ecclesiastes 11-12 | Solomon Finds His Way Published on Oct 30, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | October 28, 2012 | Pastor Derek Neider […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Ecclesiastes, Purpose, Meaning, and the Necessity of God by Suiwen Liang (Quotes Will Durant, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Stephen Jay Gould,Richard Dawkins, Jean-Paul Sartre,Bertrand Russell, Leo Tolstoy, Loren Eiseley,Aldous Huxley, G.K. Chesterton, Ravi Zacharias, and C.S. Lewis.)

June 20, 2013 – 6:46 am

Ecclesiastes 2-3 Published on Sep 19, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | September 16, 2012 | Derek Neider _____________________________ I have written on the Book of Ecclesiastes and the subject of the meaning of our lives on several occasions on this blog. In this series on Ecclesiastes I hope to show how secular […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

Ecclesiastes: Philosophical Atheist, Before you Commit Suicide Read Ecclesiastes (Quotes Sharon Rocha, Erik Wielenberg, the Declaration of Independence, Stephen Hawking, and Alan Sandage)

June 5, 2013 – 1:41 am

Ecclesiastes 1 Published on Sep 4, 2012 Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | September 2, 2012 | Pastor Derek Neider _____________________ I have written on the Book of Ecclesiastes and the subject of the meaning of our lives on several occasions on this blog. In this series on Ecclesiastes I hope to show how […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Current Events | Edit | Comments (0)

July 12, 2013 – 1:51 am Categories: Woody Allen | Post a comment

History’s Jury Is Out: Has Gosnell Rocked Our Conscience?

Many in the world today are taking a long look at the abortion industry because of the May 14, 2013 guilty verdict and life term penalty handed down by a jury (which included 9 out of 12 pro-choice jurors)  to Dr. Kermit Gosnell. During this time of reflection I wanted to put forth some of the pro-life’s best arguments.

In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented  against abortion (Episode 1),  infanticide (Episode 2),   euthanasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close look at the truth claims of the Bible.

Francis Schaeffer

__________________________

I truly believe that many of the problems we have today in the USA are due to the advancement of humanism in the last few decades in our society. Ronald Reagan appointed the evangelical Dr. C. Everett Koop to the position of Surgeon General in his administration. He partnered with Dr. Francis Schaeffer in making the video below. It is very valuable information for Christians to have.  Actually I have included a video below that includes comments from him on this subject.

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE

Published on Oct 6, 2012 by 

________________

History’s Jury Is Out: Has Gosnell Rocked Our Conscience? (8571)

COMMENTARY

by KATHRYN JEAN LOPEZ 05/14/2013 Comments (32)

The right to a dead baby. That’s not pretty. That’s not a euphemism. That’s not how we talk about abortion in the United States of America. But that is the reality of abortion in the United States of America.

When a woman walks into an abortion facility, that’s what she expects from the doctor and that’s what the doctor is expected to provide.

That’s what the Kermit Gosnell trial exposed.

Now that he has been convicted of at least some of the deaths of women and babies under his care, history records this as a hinge moment. We cannot pretend to not understand the logic of legal abortion: Human dignity is not inherent; a child is not a human life unless its mother wills it to be. We choose to continue to tolerate this or we make it stop.

Kermit Gosnell provided the service expected of him, in his filthy, torturous practice, as officials looked away at complaints about conditions and crimes within.

In the shadow of his trial, Lila Rose’s Live Action released a series of undercover videos, raising grave questions about just what doctors are doing inside top-of-the-line abortion businesses, too. Dr. LeRoy Carhart tells the actress in her 26th week of pregnancy who approached him to schedule an elective late-term abortion: “I think you’ll be affected for the positive. I think you have — I think you can make very difficult, hard decisions that help shape the life — the rest of your future and [that will]  make you work harder for the things, you know, that are important.”

He goes on to say, “I think out of respect and love and honor for this baby that you’ve lost, you will find yourself being a better person.” He tells her that “postpartum depression is really very common, but post-abortion depression? I can honestly tell you that I haven’t seen one — one person that way.”

To do what he does, to tolerate what we have, we cling to delusions of the sanctification of evil as a drug to numb the conscience.

Kirsten Powers, a formerly pro-abortion-rights Democrat who led a campaign to shame the mainstream media into covering the Gosnell trial, reflected: “Medical advances since Roe v. Wade have made it clear to me that late-term abortion is not a moral gray area, and we need to stop pretending it is. No six-months-pregnant woman is picking out names for her ‘fetus.’ It’s a baby. Let’s stop playing Orwellian word games. We are talking about human beings here.”

Further, she said: “I cannot legitimately say I am a person who cherishes human rights — the animating issue of my life and a frequent topic of my writing — and remain silent about our country’s legally endorsing infanticide.”

“I simply have to believe we are better than this,” she concluded.

That’s an open question.

In a homily at St. Rose of Lima parish in Newtown, Conn., that Advent Sunday after the horrific school shooting that killed 26, Dominican Father Peter John Cameron, editor of Magnificat, explained that “the meaning of life” and our humanity is the call “to give ourselves in sacrifice to those who are hurting and lost and to help them. Life is hard! People are fragile! We need to look into the eyes of the people who are in front of us and dare to see their hurt, their wounds. To be human means to take that kind of initiative with others — to take a risk in loving them.”

It should be impossible not to think of Karnamaya Mongar, a Bhutanese refugee who died at Gosnell’s hand, as we consider the murder of innocents. She should have found a better life here. But we’re a culture that insists that new and unplanned life is a problem, not an opportunity for expanding ourselves in self-giving, sacrificial love.

A culture that has distanced itself from the cross — the redemptive infusion of meaning to our suffering — convinces itself that abortion is a necessary solution to a problem. And by doing so we deny women and mothers and men their dignity. We pretend that there is new life for an individual through the death of another in her care, that anything else — any protections for humanity — would result in “back alleys,” even as Gosnell was a “back alley” in open sight under our “choice” regime.

Conventionally speaking, Planned Parenthood has insinuated itself as a gold standard of women’s health in politics and culture, despite being the country’s largest provider of abortions, despite alarming questions that have been raised about practices, questions that are routinely dismissed and questioners punished for ever raising them. (Phill Kline, the former prosecutor in Kansas who tried, knows this all too well.)

And the president of the United States cheers them, gives them a hand in policymaking (and imprimatur on the phony “accommodation” of religious liberty the White House issued to the Department of Health and Human Services’ abortion drug, contraception, sterilization mandate to the president’s health-care plan).

The word “Planned” is appropriate, but not as intended. Sometimes our best plans are the worst ideas. That’s increasingly so in our approach to life itself. We pretend that we are not beautifully made with an order that makes sense of the chaos of our fallen world. And so we argue that marriage isn’t marriage and life isn’t life. We don’t look to see the face of Christ in our brother, the immigrant, the political opponent, the driver on the road whose skills leave something to be desired. And the further we fall, the harder it is.

“If a person’s right to life is violated at the moment in which he is first conceived in his mother’s womb, an indirect blow is struck also at the whole of the moral order, which serves to ensure the inviolable goods of man,” Pope John Paul II observed in Poland in 1979. This is what we see playing out today.

In Evangelium Vitae (On the Inviolability of the Human Life), he wrote, “Not only is the fact of the destruction of so many human lives still to be born or in their final stage extremely grave and disturbing, but no less grave and disturbing is the fact that conscience itself, darkened as it were by such widespread conditioning, is finding it increasingly difficult to distinguish between good and evil in what concerns the basic value of human life” (4).

Here, too, is the opportunity the Gosnell case presents: It informs our national conscience and demands our urgent attention and action.

And therein lies our hope and our inspiration and our mandate. God sent a baby into the world to transform our existence. Our world can look and sound like Babel, but we know the mercy of Our Lord, who makes all things new in him. And so we must sing, unceasingly, the third verse of Joy to the World:

No more let sins and sorrows grow;

Nor thorns infest the ground.

He comes to make His blessings flow,

Far as the curse is found,

Far as the curse is found,

Far as, far as, the curse is found.

This knowledge mandates us to love women and men and their children away from the grips of a culture of death that insists it is best, that up is down and wrong is right.

Kathryn Jean Lopez is editor-at-large of National Review Online,

a nationally syndicated columnist and a director of Catholic Voices USA. 

_____________

Tony Perkins: Gosnell Trial – FOX News

Published on May 13, 2013

Tony Perkins: Gosnell Trial – FOX News

Related posts:

Al Mohler on Kermit Gosnell’s abortion practice

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE Published on Oct 6, 2012 by AdamMetropolis ________________ Picture of Francis Schaeffer and his wife Edith from the 1930′s above. I was sad to read about Edith passing away on Easter weekend in 2013. I wanted to pass along this fine […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part U “Do men have a say in the abortion debate?” (includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part T “Abortion is a dirty business” (includes video “Truth and History” and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

“Sanctity of Life Saturday” Abortion supporters lying in order to further their clause? Window to the Womb (includes video ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

It is truly sad to me that liberals will lie in order to attack good Christian people like state senator Jason Rapert of Conway, Arkansas because he headed a group of pro-life senators that got a pro-life bill through the Arkansas State Senate the last week of January in 2013. I have gone back and […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part D “If you can’t afford a child can you abort?”Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 4 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part C “Abortion” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 3 includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part B “Gendercide” (Francis Schaeffer Quotes Part 2 includes the film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

SANCTITY OF LIFE SATURDAY “AngryOldWoman” blogger argues that she has no regrets about past abortion

Sometimes you can see evidences in someone’s life of how content they really are. I saw  something like that on 2-8-13 when I confronted a blogger that goes by the name “AngryOldWoman” on the Arkansas Times Blog. See below. Leadership Crisis in America Published on Jul 11, 2012 Picture of Adrian Rogers above from 1970′s […]

“Sanctity of Life Saturday” The Church Awakens: Whatever Happened to the Human Race? (includes the video ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented  against abortion (Episode 1),  infanticide (Episode 2),   euthenasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part H “Are humans special?” includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE) Reagan: ” To diminish the value of one category of human life is to diminish us all”

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part G “How do moral nonabsolutists come up with what is right?” includes the film “ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE”)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part E “Moral absolutes and abortion” Francis Schaeffer Quotes part 5(includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS) (editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 10 “Final Choices” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 1 0   Dr. Francis Schaeffer – Episode X – Final Choices 27 min FINAL CHOICES I. Authoritarianism the Only Humanistic Social Option One man or an elite giving authoritative arbitrary absolutes. A. Society is sole absolute in absence of other absolutes. B. But society has to be […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 9 “The Age of Personal Peace and Affluence” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 9 Dr. Francis Schaeffer – Episode IX – The Age of Personal Peace and Affluence 27 min T h e Age of Personal Peace and Afflunce I. By the Early 1960s People Were Bombarded From Every Side by Modern Man’s Humanistic Thought II. Modern Form of Humanistic Thought Leads […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 8 “The Age of Fragmentation” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 8 Dr. Francis Schaeffer – Episode VIII – The Age of Fragmentation 27 min I saw this film series in 1979 and it had a major impact on me. T h e Age of FRAGMENTATION I. Art As a Vehicle Of Modern Thought A. Impressionism (Monet, Renoir, Pissarro, Sisley, […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 7 “The Age of Non-Reason” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 7 Dr. Francis Schaeffer – Episode VII – The Age of Non Reason I am thrilled to get this film series with you. I saw it first in 1979 and it had such a big impact on me. Today’s episode is where we see modern humanist man act […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 6 “The Scientific Age” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 6 How Should We Then Live 6#1 Uploaded by NoMirrorHDDHrorriMoN on Oct 3, 2011 How Should We Then Live? Episode 6 of 12 ________ I am sharing with you a film series that I saw in 1979. In this film Francis Schaeffer asserted that was a shift in […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 5 “The Revolutionary Age” (Schaeffer Sundays)

E P I S O D E 5 How Should We Then Live? Episode 5: The Revolutionary Age I was impacted by this film series by Francis Schaeffer back in the 1970′s and I wanted to share it with you. Francis Schaeffer noted, “Reformation Did Not Bring Perfection. But gradually on basis of biblical teaching there […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 4 “The Reformation” (Schaeffer Sundays)

Dr. Francis Schaeffer – Episode IV – The Reformation 27 min I was impacted by this film series by Francis Schaeffer back in the 1970′s and I wanted to share it with you. Schaeffer makes three key points concerning the Reformation: “1. Erasmian Christian humanism rejected by Farel. 2. Bible gives needed answers not only as to […]

“Schaeffer Sundays” Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 3 “The Renaissance”

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 3 “The Renaissance” Francis Schaeffer: “How Should We Then Live?” (Episode 3) THE RENAISSANCE I was impacted by this film series by Francis Schaeffer back in the 1970′s and I wanted to share it with you. Schaeffer really shows why we have so […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 2 “The Middle Ages” (Schaeffer Sundays)

  Francis Schaeffer: “How Should We Then Live?” (Episode 2) THE MIDDLE AGES I was impacted by this film series by Francis Schaeffer back in the 1970′s and I wanted to share it with you. Schaeffer points out that during this time period unfortunately we have the “Church’s deviation from early church’s teaching in regard […]

Francis Schaeffer’s “How should we then live?” Video and outline of episode 1 “The Roman Age” (Schaeffer Sundays)

Francis Schaeffer: “How Should We Then Live?” (Episode 1) THE ROMAN AGE   Today I am starting a series that really had a big impact on my life back in the 1970′s when I first saw it. There are ten parts and today is the first. Francis Schaeffer takes a look at Rome and why […]

By Everette Hatcher III | Posted in Francis Schaeffer | Edit | Comments (0)

July 12, 2013 – 1:50 am Categories: Francis Schaeffer, Prolife | Post a comment

30 Rock Finale and the Lesson of Ecclesiastes

Ecclesiastes 4-6 | Solomon’s Dissatisfaction

Published on Sep 24, 2012

Calvary Chapel Spring Valley | Sunday Evening | September 23, 2012 | Pastor Derek Neider

___________________

I have written on the Book of Ecclesiastes and the subject of the meaning of our lives on several occasions on this blog. In this series on Ecclesiastes I hope to show how secular humanist man can not hope to find a lasting meaning to his life in a closed system without bringing God back into the picture. This is the same exact case with Solomon in the Book of Ecclesiastes. Three thousand years ago, Solomon took a look at life “under the sun” in his book of Ecclesiastes. Christian scholar Ravi Zacharias has noted, “The key to understanding the Book of Ecclesiastes is the term ‘under the sun.’ What that literally means is you lock God out of a closed system, and you are left with only this world of time plus chance plus matter.”

Let me show you some inescapable conclusions if you choose to live without God in the picture. Solomon came to these same conclusions when he looked at life “under the sun.”

  1. Death is the great equalizer (Eccl 3:20, “All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.”)
  2. Chance and time have determined the past, and they will determine the future.  (Ecclesiastes 9:11-13)
  3. Power reigns in this life, and the scales are not balanced(Eccl 4:1)
  4. Nothing in life gives true satisfaction without God including knowledge (1:16-18), ladies and liquor (2:1-3, 8, 10, 11), and great building projects (2:4-6, 18-20).

You can only find a lasting meaning to your life by looking above the sun and bring God back into the picture.

This was easily my favorite scene of the finale, because it spoke plainly to the much-debated dilemma of the modern woman: Can we have it all? And won’t success at work and at home bring us the happiness men have always had?

This scene reminded me of another TV boss and protege: Don Draper and Peggy Olson of Mad Men. Like Liz, Peggy has pursued success under the tutelage of an older male boss; like Jack, Don is mostly an alcoholic with a great voice. If only Liz could go back in time and explain this bit to Peggy: that having it all, that getting what the men get, is no guarantee of happiness.

30 Rock Finale and the Lesson of Ecclesiastes

February 5, 2013 By 6 Comments

Last week, the television show 30 Rock aired its series finale, and under the surface the episode was a surprisingly philosophical treatment of the question, “How can I find fulfillment in life?”

When the show began seven years ago, I—like most white, well-educated, professional women in their twenties—loved Tina Fey’s character, Liz Lemon. She was like us. Her boss Jack Donaghy neatly identified her in the very first episode: “a New York third-wave feminist, college-educated, single-and-pretending-to-be-happy-about-it, over-scheduled, undersexed, you buy any magazine that says ‘healthy body image’ on the cover and every two years you take up knitting for … a week.” Her flaws and foibles were not the superficial quirks most rom-com heroines are given; despite Jack’s neat summation, Liz was a real character rather than just a character type, and we appreciated that. The show’s frenetic pace, absurd situations, and self-aware jokes displayed Tina Fey’s signature style and blazed a trail for other female writers and producers to follow.

The show, unfortunately, got worse instead of better. To be honest, I haven’t kept up with the most recent seasons. Nonetheless, out of nostalgia and an enduring affection for Tina Fey, last night I curled up with a bowl of very hot shrimp curry and my laptop to watch the final episode of 30 Rock.

There were a couple of plot lines to catch up on—I discovered that Liz Lemon is now married, with two adopted children, and that the TV show she produced, TGS, is ending. Lemon is grappling with the life of a stay at home mom and clearly misses her job. When she drops by the office to check on her boss, she finds out that she must produce one final episode of TGS, and she goes back to work.

The 30 Rock finale—amazingly enough—morphed from there into a somewhat overt exploration of the meaning of life. Facing the end of an era, the characters ask, “What did it all mean? How will I be happy now?”

This plays out differently for each of the main characters, but the quest for fulfillment can be seen most clearly in the relationship between Jack and Liz (which was arguably the best part of the show in any episode). Jack has reached the pinnacle of his career, achieving everything he’d hoped.

“Take a look at my new view,” he tells Liz in his office. “A city built on the religion of capitalism, and I am its high priest… Even those who hate me…Even they must acknowledge me as a God…”

“And this makes you happy?” she says, skeptical.

“It should…”

Then Lemon quotes Yoda: “Dark times are these.”

Recognizing his discontentment, Jack sets out to make himself happy, creating a “Six Sigma Wheel of Happiness Domination” and seeking to fulfill himself through faith, work, arts and leisure, sex and relationships, family, philanthropy, hobbies, and hair.  

Despite his success in every slice of the pie chart, Jack remains unfulfilled, and tells Liz,

“Work is never going to make you happy, Lemon, and anyone who tells you differently is a fool.”

“Are you kidding me? What have we been talking about for the last seven years?”

“I don’t know anymore. For the first time in my life, I don’t know what I need. Maybe I’ll buy a boat.”

“Oh my God. This whole time you’ve been telling me how to run my life, you didn’t know what you were talking about. You’re just an alcoholic with a great voice.”

“Careful, Lemon, you’re playing with fire.”

“You made me buy into this whole life. When I met you I was perfectly happy with what I had—eating night cheese and transitioning my pajamas into daywear—you’re the one who told me to want more. And now, when I need you most, you’re bailing on me?”

But then, that truth was there all along. If Peggy had been looking for it, she could have seen it in Don Draper’s life, or in the words of Ecclesiastes:

All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun. (1:8-9)

In the 30 Rock finale, Jack and other characters discover that their attempts to find fulfillment fall flat—even success is meaningless. Of course, sitcoms don’t usually end on a nihilistic note, and 30 Rock is no exception.

In the final scenes, Liz rushes to stop Jack from jumping off a bridge, yelling, “There’s so much to live for! Don’t you want to see how Mad Men ends?” (Funnily enough, 30 Rock might be the best answer to the question of how Mad Men ends.) Rather than committing suicide, though, Jack is simply jumping onto a yacht, planning a soul-searching trip around the world. Being on the boat, he says, gives him new insight almost immediately—for example, he realizes that he (non-romantically) loves Lemon. Their relationship is restored. As he floats off, he comes up with a new business plan—“Clear dishwashers!”—and immediately his joie de vivre is back.

It’s not exactly the conclusion that the writer of Ecclesiastes comes to—“Fear God, and keep his commandments” (12:13)—but it’s not too far off from some of his (or her) earlier conclusions: that “there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work” (3:22), or that “two are better than one” (4:9), or that “when God gives someone wealth and possessions, and the ability to enjoy them, to accept their lot and be happy in their toil—this is a gift of God” (5:19).

The answers that Liz and Jack find are incomplete,  but that doesn’t mean that 30 Rock doesn’t shine a light on the very truth of the human condition: that there is nothing new under the sun, and that our attempts to attain happiness are often meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

As Christians, sometimes we skip that part. We gloss over the difficult truths about our world, skipping merrily past the existential angst, the broken realities of a sin-marred creation, and going straight to the happy shiny Jesus truth.

But what I loved about 30 Rock, when it was at its best, was how it told the truth about the way that success and popularity and work and relationships and money and pleasure and food (with Lemon, always the food) don’t fix us. They’re just band-aids, and what we need is open heart surgery.

Just as we loved Tina Fey for her realistic flaws, we loved 30 Rock for pointing out some of the absurdities and angst in what it means to be human. Maybe the Church should be willing to pause there, with Tina Fey and the author of Ecclesiastes, for a little while longer too.

Related posts:

The Humanist takes on Solomon and the Book of Ecclesiastes

This from the American Humanist website: This week we’re pleased to publish a new poem “Ecclesiastes” by Frank S. Robinson. Frank S. Robinson is a retired New York State administrative law judge, a rare coin dealer, and author of five books, most recently The Case for Rational Optimism. He is married to the poet Therese […]

Avril Lavigne commits “the fool’s sin” in front of family crowd in Tampa (Avril and the Book of Ecclesiastes Part 1)

Tampa Bay Rays apologize for Avril Lavigne TMZ reported: According to local reports, Avril’s mic didn’t work at the start of her show … and she responded to the cavalcade of boos by yelling obscenities at crowd. Rays rep Rick Vaughn tells TMZ, “The Rays demand profanity-free performances from all of our concert performers and […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part U “Do men have a say in the abortion debate?” (includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

2008 article on Woody Allen on the meaning of life

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

If I see Chris Martin of Coldplay in person what would I say to him? (Part 3)

Chris Martin revealed in his interview with Howard Stern that he was rasied an evangelical Christian but he has left the church. I believe that many words that he puts in his songs today are generated from the deep seated Christian beliefs from his childhood that find their way out in his songs. His belief in […]

Part 4 Adrian Rogers on Proverbs “How To Be The Father Of A Wise Child” (video too)

Picture of Adrian Rogers above from 1970′s while pastor of Bellevue Baptist of Memphis, and president of Southern Baptist Convention. (Little known fact, Rogers was the starting quarterback his senior year of the Palm Beach High School football team that won the state title and a hero to a 7th grader at the same school named […]

If I see Chris Martin of Coldplay in person what would I say to him? (Part 2)

Chris Martin revealed in his interview with Howard Stern that he was rasied an evangelical Christian but he has left the church. I believe that many words that he puts in his songs today are generated from the deep seated Christian beliefs from his childhood that find their way out in his songs. His belief in […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part N “A discussion of the Woody Allen Movie CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS”(includes film DEATH BY SOMEONE’S CHOICE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part L “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 2 (includes the film THE BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part K “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 1 (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline […]

“Woody Wednesday” Another look at Woody Allen’s movie Crimes and Misdemeanors

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

“Woody Wednesday” A 2010 review of Woody Allen’s Annie Hall

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

Robert Dick Wilson’s talk “Is the Higher Criticism Scholarly?” (part 6 of transcript)

The Bible and Archaeology (3/5) For many more archaeological evidences in support of the Bible, see Archaeology and the Bible . (There are some great posts on this too at the bottom of this post.) Robert Dick Wilson at the Grove City Bible Conference in 1909. IS THE HIGHER CRITICISM SCHOLARLY?Clearly attested facts showing that thedestructive […]

“Woody Wednesday” In 2009 interview Woody Allen talks about the lack of meaning of life and the allure of younger women

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

“Woody Wednesday” Woody Allen on the Emptiness of Life by Toby Simmons

I have spent alot of time talking about Woody Allen films on this blog and looking at his worldview. He has a hopeless, meaningless, nihilistic worldview that believes we are going to turn to dust and there is no afterlife. Even though he has this view he has taken the opportunity to look at the weaknesses of […]

12 Questions for Woody Allen (Woody Wednesday)

Above is a clip of 12 questions for Woody Allen. Below is a list of some of his movies. WOODY’S FINEST: Philip French’s favourite five Annie Hall (1977) In his first fully achieved masterwork, a semi-autobiographical comedy in which his ex-lover Diane Keaton and best friend Tony Roberts play versions of themselves, Allen created a […]

“Woody Wednesday” Allen on the meaning of life (part 2)

September 3, 2011 · 5:16 PM ↓ Jump to Comments Woody Allen on the Emptiness of Life In the final scene of Manhattan, Woody Allen’s character, Isaac, is lying on the sofa with a microphone and a tape-recorder, dictating to himself an idea for a short story. It will be about “people in Manhattan,” he says, […]

Video interviews of Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin (Part 4)

As far as I know they have never done an interview together. Therefore, I have included separate interviews that they have done below and I have some links to past posts I have done on them too. Shane Warne – Chris Martin Interview (Part 1) Uploaded by HandyAndy136 on Nov 24, 2010 Originally broadcast on […]

“Woody Wednesday” Allen realizes if God doesn’t exist then all is meaningless

The Bible and Archaeology (1/5) The Bible maintains several characteristics that prove it is from God. One of those is the fact that the Bible is accurate in every one of its details. The field of archaeology brings to light this amazing accuracy. _________________________- I want to make two points today. 1. There is no […]

Milton Friedman’s religious views

John Lofton noted: “DR. FRIEDMAN an evolutionist with ‘values’ of unknown origin but he said they were not ‘accidental.’ “   If anyone takes time to read my blog for any length of time they can not question my respect for the life long work of Milton Friedman. He has advanced the cause of freedom […]

July 12, 2013 – 1:48 am Categories: Current Events | Post a comment

President Obama and government spending (GSA Govt waste tip of iceberg)

I wish President Obama would try to cut spending instead of increasing spending and our debt.

One of my first blog posts back in 2009 featured a column about the Social Security Administration squandering $750,000 on a “conference” at a fancy golf resort in Arizona.

This is why I’m not surprised the GSA pissed away a lot of money at a Las Vegas resort. This is what people do when they spend other people’s money. Heck, this cartoon shows it better than I can say it.

Here’s a small sampling of similar outrages.

The bureaucrats involved in all these outrages should be fired, or perhaps even charged with crimes such as malfeasance, but this cartoon reminds us that the real problem is the political class which appropriates the money that is then wasted by bureaucracies.

This cartoon was authored by Michael Ramirez, and you may know he is one of my favorites. To understand why,  see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

And this cartoon reminds us that every dollar of waste that gets publicized is just the tip of the iceberg.

I’m not familiar with Steve Breen, but he does lots of work like this, I’m sure I’ll be featuring more of his cartoons.

Thinking about all this waste, fraud, and abuse is a bit depressing, so let’s try to feel better by thinking about the ways that foreign governments squander taxpayer money, such as the UK government funding sex trips to Amsterdam, the Greek government rewarding pedophiles with disability handouts,  or the European Commission financing penile implants for senior politicians and bureaucrats.

d

July 12, 2013 – 1:44 am Categories: Cato Institute, Economist Dan Mitchell, President Obama | Post a comment

Senator Tom Coburn on the “Debt Bomb”

Senator Tom Coburn on the “Debt Bomb”

Published on May 24, 2012 by

http://www.foundry.org |

_____________

July 12, 2013 – 1:23 am Categories: spending out of control | Post a comment

“Friedman Friday” Free or equal? 30 years after Milton Friedman’s Free to Choose (Part 2)

Johan Norberg – Free or Equal – Free to Choose 30 years later 2/5

Published on Jun 10, 2012 by

In 1980 economist and Nobel laureate Milton Friedman inspired market reform in the West and revolutions in the East with his celebrated television series “Free To Choose.”
Thirty years later, in this one-hour documentary, the young Swedish writer, analyst and Cato Institute Fellow Johan Norberg travels in Friedman’s footsteps to see what has
actually happened in the places Friedman’s ideas helped transform. In location after location Norberg examines the contemporary relevance of Friedman’s ideas in the 2011 world of globalization and financial crisis. Central to his examination are the perennial questions concerning power and prosperity, and the trade-offs between individual liberty and income equality.

___________

I have enjoyed reading this series of reviews by T. Kurt Jaros on Milton and Rose Friedman’s book “Free to Choose.” I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

I have posted several transcripts and videos of the FREE TO CHOOSE film series on my blog. My favorite episodes are the “Failure of Socialism” and  “Power of the Market.” (This is the 1990 version but the 1980 version is good too.) Today with the increase of the welfare state maybe people should take a long look again at the episode “From Cradle to Grave.” 

Milton Friedman’s  view on vouchers for the schools needs to be heeded now more than ever too. “Created Equal” is probably the episode that I wanted President Obama to see the most and I wrote several letters to him suggesting that.

T. Kurt Jaros is currently a Master’s student studying Systematic Theology at King’s College in London.  He holds a B.A. in Philosophy and Political Science cum laude and an M.A. in Christian Apologetics high honors from Biola University, an evangelical Christian university outside of Los Angeles.

He enjoys learning and thinking about theology, specifically historical theology, philosophical theology and philosophy of religion, and issues pertaining to monergism and synergism.  Additionally, he enjoys learning and thinking about political philosophy, economics, American political history, and campaigns.

The Power of the Market: Part 1

T. Kurt Jaros on Economics

This is part of a series on Milton Friedman’s “Free to Choose.”

A couple weeks ago I wrote about the introduction to Free to Choose by Milton and Rose Friedman. In this post, I will explore some of the points from the first chapter, “The Power of the Market.”

Friedman begins the chapter by explaining the difference between a command and a voluntary economy. Like a military, there is a chain of commands that take place. Yet the general cannot be entirely accountable for everything that a private does. That is why “commands must be supplemented by voluntary cooperation,” which is a more fundamental technique of coordinating activities. Friedman argues that there is no society that operates entirely on the command method or the voluntary method. Even in the Soviet Union there were moonlighters who would take extra pay to fix a household problem same day than for the homeowner to wait months for the government.

The market functions in not-so-obvious ways. Leonard E. Read wrote a story about how a pencil is made, from the forests of northwestern America to the factories in Indonesia. Yet at the store, we exchange some of our money for some pencils. Astoundingly, “no one sitting in a central office gave orders to these thousands of people” and “no military police enforced the orders that were not given.” How could this be? Adam Smith understood this clearly: “if an exchange between two parties is voluntary, it will not take place unless both believe they will benefit from it.” Smith observed that in a free market, buyers and sellers would coordinate together voluntarily to make everyone better off. Economic order emerges from individuals seeking their own interest.

The price system that forms helps to naturally regulate the market in three ways: transmits information, incentivizes price efficiency and distributes income.

1. Transmits information: Only necessary information is transmitted between buyer and sellers. This includes information of changes in demand and supply but not causes of the changes. “A major problem in transmitting information efficiently is to make sure that everyone who can use the information gets it without clogging the ‘in’ baskets of those who have no use for it.” The price system naturally solves the problem because the people who are looking for the information search it out to better their situation. From the consumer’s perspective, this explains why I spend so much time looking for good deals between different grocery stores! However, the government can also me a major source of interference with the natural market when it sets tariffs on international trade, fixes wages and prices, regulates certain industries, and produces erratic inflation.

2. Incentivizes price efficiency: Understanding incentives was the easiest of the three natural regulations for me to grasp. As consumers, if there is a high price for an item, we tend to economize as much as we can to get our money’s worth. My wife is always getting on to me for trying to penny-pinch, and that’s more true for the larger purchases we make. But producers also have incentives when it comes to running a business. They want to run a business as cheaply as possible to maximize their profit. Additionally, workers consider incentives. “Satisfaction in a job may compensate for low wages. On the other hand, higher wages may compensate for a disagreeable job.”

3. Distributes income: Lastly, the market redistributes wealth in a natural way. Some people are unhappy with the distribution of wealth and so look to where they think the grass is greener. “In a command system envy and dissatisfaction are directed at the rulers. In a free market system they are directed at the markets.”  However, “fixing” the free market causes disincentives and leads to inefficiencies of wealth growth. The command system is worse. Workers are unhappy when bureaucracies tell them what to do and when the government builds things, nobody takes responsibility for them: “when everybody owns something, nobody owns it, and nobody has a direct interest in maintaining or improving its condition.” The command system does not transmit information or incentivize as efficiently as the free market, and it distorts the incentives for various income distributions.

Next time I’ll explain the role of a government in a free market. 

Johan Norberg vs. Naomi Klein and The Shock Doctrine

Uploaded by on Sep 29, 2008

Swedish author Johan Norberg sits down with reason.tv’s Michael C. Moynihan to discuss Naomi Klein’s diastrous yet popular polemic against the great free market economist Milton Friedman.

Related posts:

Reason Magazine’s rightly praises Milton Friedman but makes foolish claim along the way

I must say that I have lots of respect for Reason Magazine and for their admiration of Milton Friedman. However, I do disagree with one phrase below. At the end of this post I will tell you what sentence it is. Uploaded by ReasonTV on Jul 28, 2011 There’s no way to appreciate fully the […]

Video clip:Milton Friedman discusses his view of numerous political figures and policy issues in (Part 1)

Milton Friedman on Hayek’s “Road to Serfdom” 1994 Interview 1 of 2 Uploaded by PenguinProseMedia on Oct 25, 2011 Says Federal Reserve should be abolished, criticizes Keynes. One of Friedman’s best interviews, discussion spans Friedman’s career and his view of numerous political figures and public policy issues. ___________________ Two Lucky People by Milton and Rose Friedman […]

Milton Friedman remembered at 100 years from his birth (Part 1)

What a great man Milton Friedman was. The Legacy of Milton Friedman November 18, 2006 Alexander Tabarrok Great economist by day and crusading public intellectual by night, Milton Friedman was my hero. Friedman’s contributions to economics are profound, the permanent income hypothesis, the resurrection of the quantity theory of money, and his magnum opus with […]

Milton Friedman videos and transcripts Part 7

Milton Friedman videos and transcripts Part 7 On my blog http://www.thedailyhatch.org I have an extensive list of posts that have both videos and transcripts of MiltonFriedman’s interviews and speeches. Here below is just small list of those and more can be accessed by clicking on “Milton Friedman” on the side of this page or searching […]

Milton Friedman at Hillsdale College 2006 (part 1)

Milton Friedman at Hillsdale College 2006 July 2006 Free to Choose: A Conversation with Milton Friedman Milton Friedman Economist Milton Friedman is a senior research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Chicago, where he taught from 1946-1976. Dr. Friedman received the Nobel Memorial […]

Open letter to President Obama (Part 116.6)

Milton Friedman said that getting George Bush I to be his vice president was his biggest mistake because he knew that Bush was not a true conservative and sure enough George Bush did raise taxes when he later became President. Below is a speech by George W. Bush honoring Milton Friedman: Milton Friedman Honored for […]

Transcript and video of Milton Friedman on Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan (Part 1)

Below is a discussion from Milton Friedman on Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan. February 10, 1999 | Recorded on February 10, 1999 audio, video, and blogs » uncommon knowledge PRESIDENTIAL REPORT CARD: Milton Friedman on the State of the Union with guest Milton Friedman Milton Friedman, Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution and Nobel Laureate in […]

Dan Mitchell’s article on Chili and video clip on Milton Friedman’s influence

Milton Friedman and Chile – The Power of Choice Uploaded by FreeToChooseNetwork on May 13, 2011 In this excerpt from Free To Choose Network’s “The Power of Choice (2006)”, we set the record straight on Milton Friedman’s dealings with Chile — including training the Chicago Boys and his meeting with Augusto Pinochet. Was the tremendous […]

Open letter to President Obama (Part 116.5)

Milton Friedman’s negative income tax explained by Friedman in 1968: President Obama c/o The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President, I know that you receive 20,000 letters a day and that you actually read 10 of them every day. I really do respect you for trying to get a […]

“Friedman Friday” :“A Nobel Laureate on the American Economy” VTR: 5/31/77 Transcript and video clip (Part 5)

Milton Friedman on the American Economy (5 of 6)   Uploaded by donotswallow on Aug 9, 2009 THE OPEN MIND Host: Richard D. Heffner Guest: Milton Friedman Title: A Nobel Laureate on the American Economy VTR: 5/31/77 _____________________________________ Below is a transcipt from a portion of an interview that Milton Friedman gave on 5-31-77: Friedman: […]

July 12, 2013 – 12:55 am Categories: Current Events, Milton Friedman | Post a comment