I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline Republican.
On 2-22-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog the person using the username “Doc” asserted:
SR – Although I don’t normally think of Widipedia as an authoritative source, this article contains sufficient citations to peer-reviewed literature to make it more trustworthy than most:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_a…
On 2-22-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog I responded:
Doc thanks for the link to the article but I found lots of mixed messages from it. For instance look at this passage:
Even at the scale of the individual, IQ may not directly cause more disbelief in God. Dr David Hardman of London Metropolitan University says: “It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief.” He adds that other studies do nevertheless correlate IQ with being willing or able to question beliefs….Doc said, Sagan plagiarized fiction from the Bible?”
No he didn’t do that but his book “Contact” did show us a lot about his struggle to answer the big questions of life. Sagan’s writings indicated that he was an agnostic and he said he would consider new evidence and is why I started writing letters to him back in 1992 and was fortunate to receive a personal letter back from him.
Carl Sagan could not rid himself of the “mannishness of man.” Those who have read Francis Schaeffer’s many books know exactly what I am talking about. We are made in God’s image and we are living in God’s world. Therefore, we can not totally suppress the objective truths of our unique humanity. In my letter of Jan 10, 1996 to Dr. Sagan, I really camped out on this point a long time because I had read Sagan’s book Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors and in it Sagan attempts to totally debunk the idea that we are any way special. However, what does Dr. Sagan have Dr. Arroway say at the end of the movie Contact when she is testifying before Congress about the alien that communicated with her? See if you can pick out the one illogical word in her statement: “I was given a vision how tiny, insignificant, rare and precious we all are. We belong to something that is greater than ourselves and none of us are alone.”
Dr Sagan deep down knows that we are special so he could not avoid putting the word “precious” in there. Schaeffer said unbelievers are put in a place of tension when they have to live in the world that God has made because deep down they know they are special because God has put that knowledge in their hearts.We are not the result of survival of the fittest and headed back to the dirt forevermore. This is what Schaeffer calls “taking the roof off” of the unbeliever’s worldview and showing the inconsistency that exists.
Doc do you think we are special or is the human race just another animal like Sagan argued?
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On 2-22-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog the person using the username “Doc” replied:
SR, I don’t think we are special to anyone/thing other than each other. We do all go back to the dirt, except for those traces of us that we leave for others in our genes and in our works. That is what makes this life special, and it shouldn’t be cheapened by some belief in a “better life” after this one. All we have is each other, now.
“I accept the fact that like all living things I shall soon cease to exist. For a time, some of the genes I have carried will be replicated in my children, and something of me will survive in the books I have written and in the help I have given other people. Death does not trouble me. I have no fear of supernatural punishments, of course nor could I enjoy an eternal life in which there would be nothing left for me to do, the task of living having been accomplished.”
— http://www.scientificmindfulness.com/2010/…
Doc thanks for the thoughtful response and I do respect you as a good representative of the secular humanist point of view just as I respected Dr Paul Kurtz who started the magazine “Free Inquiry” which you linked to. Here is the first part of 4 parts of my tribute to Kurtz. https://thedailyhatch.org/2012/10/23/debating-with-the-gentleman-paul-kurtz/
I subscribed to “Free Inquiry’ for several years and had letters published in it….Doc you are admitting that humans are not special except for the fact that ancestors inherit our genes?
I would love to hear from any atheist that would present a case for lasting meaning in life apart from God. It seems to me that the British humanist H. J. Blackham was right in his accessment of the predictament that atheists face:
On humanist assumptions [the assumption that there is no God and life has evolved by time and chance alone], life leads to nothing, and every pretense that it does notis a deceit. If there is a bridge over a gorge which spans only half the distance andends in mid-air, and if the bridge is crowded with human beings pressing on, oneafter another they fall into the abyss. The bridge leads to nowhere, and those who are pressing forward to cross it are going nowhere. . . It does not matter where they think they are going, what preparations for the journey they may have made, how much they may be enjoying it all . . . such a situation is a model of futility (H. J. Blackham et al., Objections to Humanism (Riverside, Connecticut: Greenwood Press, 1967).)
Woody Allen’s film does a great job of showing the need for the “enforcement factor.” One reviewer made it sound like the movie was unrealistic and Judah could have smoothtalked his way out of this. However, Woody Allen anticipated this objection and that is why he threw in the illegal financial dealings of Judah that his former girlfriend knew about. Now instead of just losing his marriage he may have to go to jail.
Could you tell me Doc or Olphart or any other brave how a moral absolutist would justify not having Judah’s girlfriend killed? On what basis?
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In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented against abortion (Episode 1), infanticide (Episode 2), euthenasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close look at the truth claims of the Bible.
I truly believe that many of the problems we have today in the USA are due to the advancement of humanism in the last few decades in our society. Ronald Reagan appointed the evangelical Dr. C. Everett Koop to the position of Surgeon General in his administration. He partnered with Dr. Francis Schaeffer in making the video below. It is very valuable information for Christians to have. Actually I have included a video below that includes comments from him on this subject.
Many liberals actually truly do argue for abortion rights over human rights. Prochoice advocate Elizabeth Williams came out and said that on 1-23-13 in her article on Salon. We hear reasons for abortion such as poverty,and child abuse, but why not consider adoption? Instead, the political left will stop at nothing to push the pro-abortion agenda. Why not stop and take an honest look at when life begins for the unborn child and when she begins to feel pain?
Dr. C. Everett Koop is pictured above.
Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE
Published on Oct 6, 2012 by AdamMetropolis
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Great quotes from “Whatever happened to the human race?” by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop (from the shelter website):.
Summary
Francis Schaeffer and, former Surgeon General, C. Everette Koop deal directly with the devaluing of human life and its results in our society. It did not take place in a vacuum. It is a direct result of a worldview that has rejected the doctrine of man being created in the image of God. Man as a product of the impersonal, plus time and chance has no sufficient basis for worth.
Modern humanism has an inherent need to manipulate and tinker with the natural processes, including human nature [through genetics], because humanism:
1. Rejects the doctrine of Creation.
2. Therefore rejects the idea that there is anything stable or “given” about human nature.
3. Sees human nature as part of a long, unfolding process of development in which everything is changing.
4. Casts around for some solution to the problem of despair that this determinist-evolutionist vision induces.
5. Can only find a solution in the activity of the human will, which — in opposition to its own system — it hopes can transcend the inexorable flow of nature and act upon nature.
6. Therefore encourages manipulation of nature, including tinkering with people, as the only way of escaping from nature’s bondage. But this manipulation cannot have any certain criteria to guide it because, with God abolished, the only remaining criterion is nature (which is precisely what humanist man wants to escape from) and nature is both noncruel and cruel.
(Francis A. Schaeffer and C. Everette Koop, Whatever Happened to the Human Race?, Ch. 1)
January 22, 2013 at 3:52 pm
Today marks the 40th anniversary of the Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v. Wade that overturned state abortion laws and sanctioned abortion on demand across the United States.
Despite the proclamations of supporters that the Court’s pronouncements in Roe and its accompanying case Doe v. Bolton had “settled” the abortion issue, nothing could be further from the truth.
Chuck Donovan, president of the Charlotte Lozier Institute, comments that these cases “remain the ultimate in unsettling law, upending the meaning of the Declaration of Independence and creating conditions where human lives are not seen as created equal in value.”
It’s a decision that has come at an unspeakable cost: Estimates suggest that more than 55 million abortions have occurred since 1973.
Just a few years after the Roe decision, then-President Ronald Reagan recounted the steep toll of the Court’s ruling on society and the future preservation of American values:
Abortion has denied [these children] the first and most basic of human rights, and we are infinitely poorer for their loss. We are poorer not simply for lives not led and for contributions not made, but also for the erosion of our sense of the worth and dignity of every individual. To diminish the value of one category of human life is to diminish us all.
Supporters of the Roe decision have felt the pressing weight of that truth for 40 years. No longer able to convince new generations that denying life to some will lead to greater happiness for others, the philosophy of Roe—like its original champions—isn’t so vigorous today.
Polls indicate that roughly half of Americans identify themselves as “pro-life”—including many millennials, who will make up a significant part of the March for Life in Washington, D.C., later this week.
According to Americans United for Life, at least 60 new pro-life laws were enacted in states across the country last year alone. Thousands of community-based pregnancy centers have harnessed the best of the power and spirit of civil society, providing compassionate counseling, holistic support, and accurate information to women facing unplanned pregnancies.
Since 1973, the pro-life movement’s many foot soldiers have charged the hill of American law and culture to victories so impressive that even Time magazine has recognized that pro-abortion advocates are on the losing side.
Still, the challenges to life, conscience, and freedom that inevitably stem from sanctioned abortion on demand persist.
Every year, the federal government entangles taxpayers in the abortion business, sending hundreds of millions of dollars to Planned Parenthood, which performs one out of four abortions in the United States. Washington also funnels federal aid to a number of international groups that promote and perform abortions—at least one of which has been implicated in abetting China’s coercive one-child policy.
Then there’s Obamacare. The health care law that is wreaking havoc on religious liberty through its anti-conscience mandate also provides weak and limited conscience protections for medical providers and opens avenues for increased individual and taxpayer funding of abortion.
Though these and many other challenges continue to test their resolve, pro-life leaders have a winning strategy that has proven effective in changing hearts, minds, and laws: “Witness to the truth matters for its own sake,” writes Heritage’s William E. Simon Fellow Ryan Anderson on the anniversary of Roe, “but persistent, winsome witness also tends to bear good fruit, even if it takes 40 years and counting.”
With the courageous efforts and continued victories of many leaders in the pro-life movement, hope remains that it won’t take another 40 years for government to respect the conscience rights of individuals, medical providers, and taxpayers and ensure the basic rights of liberty and life for everyone—including those yet to be born.
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 7) “Poverty not good reason for abortion, why not give up for adoption?”
Dr Richard Land discusses abortion and slavery – 10/14/2004 – part 3 The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 6) For many pro-abortionists ” …the problem is not determining when actual human life begins, but when the value of that life begins to out weigh other considerations”
The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Francis Schaeffer pictured above._________ The 45 minute video above is from the film series created from Francis Schaeffer’s book “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” with Dr. C. Everett Koop. This book really […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 5) “Slavery issue compared to rights of unborn child”
The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. I asked over and over again for one liberal blogger […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 4) “How do pro-lifers react to the movie THE CIDER HOUSE RULES?”
Francis Schaeffer pictured above._________ The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. I asked over and over again […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 3) “What should be the punishment for abortion doctors?”
The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” On 1-24-13 I took on the child abuse argument put forth by Ark Times Blogger “Deathbyinches,” and the day before I pointed out that because the unborn baby has all the genetic code […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 2) “The pro-abortion child abuse argument destroyed here”
PHOTO BY STATON BREIDENTHAL from Pro-life march in Little Rock on 1-20-13. Tim Tebow on pro-life super bowl commercial. Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue of abortion. Here is another encounter below. On January 22, 2013 (on the 40th anniversary of the […]
Taking on Ark Times bloggers about abortion on the 40th anniversary date of Roe v. Wade (Part 1)
Dr Richard Land discusses abortion and slavery – 10/14/2004 – part 3 The best pro-life film I have ever seen below by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop “Whatever happened to the human race?” Over the years I have taken on the Ark Times liberal bloggers over and over and over concerning the issue […]
The Daily Hatch 