Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part K “On what basis do you say murder is wrong?”Part 1 (includes film ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline Republican.

On 2-23-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog  I asserted: 

Mudturtle you said, “Absolutes? Go for them Saline.As for me,I prefer TO GO WITH WHAT’S RIGHT.”

Really you can figure that out how? Let me challenge any moral nonabsolutist to answer this question below concerning a morality issue.

Remember back in April of 2012 when we saw some newly released pictures from Hitler’s bunker?

Hitler’s last few moments of life were filled with anxiety as they should have been. He went on to face his maker and pay dearly for his many sins. When I look at the never before released pictures of Hitler’s bunker, it makes me wonder how anyone can claim that this life doesn’t count for all eternity and people like Hitler are home free like Woody Allen’s movie “Crimes and Misdemeanors” suggests.

Mudturtle answer this one question. HOW COULD JUDAH HAVE REMOVED HIS TROUBLESOME MISTRESS FROM HIS LIFE WITHOUT KILLING HER? Woody Allen knew what he was doing in this film and he was showing that without God and an afterlife then there is no reason not to murder!!!!

Woody Allen’s 1989 movie, CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS , is concerning the need of God while making decisions in the area of personal morality. In this film, Allen attacks his own atheistic view of morality. Martin Landau plays a Jewish eye doctor named Judah Rosenthal raised by a religious father who always told him, “The eyes of God are always upon you.” However, Judah later concludes that God doesn’t exist. He has his mistress (played in the film by Anjelica Huston) murdered because she continually threatened to blow the whistle on his past questionable, probably illegal, business activities. She also attempted to break up Judah ‘s respectable marriage by going public with their two-year affair. Judah struggles with his conscience throughout the remainder of the movie. He continues to be haunted by his father’s words: “The eyes of God are always upon you.” This is a very scary phrase to a young boy, Judah observes. He often wondered how penetrating God’s eyes are.

Later in the film, Judah reflects on the conversation his religious father had with Judah ‘s unbelieving Aunt May at the dinner table many years ago:

“Come on Sol, open your eyes. Six million Jews burned to death by the Nazis, and they got away with it because might makes right,” says aunt May

Sol replies, “May, how did they get away with it?”

Judah asks, “If a man kills, then what?”

Sol responds to his son, “Then in one way or another he will be punished.”

Aunt May comments, “I say if he can do it and get away with it and he chooses not to be bothered by the ethics, then he is home free.”

Judah ‘s final conclusion was that might did make right. He observed that one day, because of this conclusion, he woke up and the cloud of guilt was gone. He was, as his aunt said, “home free.”

On 2-23-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog  the person using the username “DeathByInches” observed: 

“but you both are afraid to answer the question concerning Judah having his troublesome girlfriend killed since you know there is no enforcement factor there to punish him if there is no afterlife.”

I don’t believe in Judah or his girlfriend unless he’s that South African runner with no legs who killed his women at the end of last week. I’ve got to get a leg up on this story before I can render an intelligent decisions on his guilt.

Let me put this as politely as I can….Saline, old fellow, you’re unhinged, deranged, not in touch with reality, slipping a cog, rowing with 1 oar, and perhaps a danger to those who live around you. I have to assume you live alone and for guys like you that’s expected, but not good for your community since there’s no one around to notice when you’ve slipped entirely off the edge.

It’s too late tonight but tomorrow I’m going to Google up some possible help for you in Saline County. In the mean time….uh…I want to answer your question concerning Judah having his troublesome girlfriend killed, just in hopes it will calm you down. Yellow, I think Judah’s girlfriend is wearing yellow. There…I’m not afraid to say it….YELLOW

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On 2-23-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog  I responded: 

DBI you want to verbally attack me instead of logically answering the question “On what basis do you say murder is wrong and is there any reason at all that Judah should have restrained from killing his troublesome mistress?” Everyone can see you are running away because you have no answer. Why don’t you prove my statement false and answer?

DBI you need have to face the fact that in the materialistic worldview that you hold there is no logical way to attain lasting meaning to one’s life.

DBI you should take a long look at the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes or the song “Dust In The Wind” by Kansas because they correctly life’s meaning without a hope of an afterlife .

What does King Solomon, the movie director Woody Allen and the modern rock bands Coldplay and Kansas have in common? All four took on the issues surrounding death, the meaning of life and a possible afterlife, although they all came up with their own conclusions on these weighty matters.

Let me start off by pointing out what they all had in common. First, they were very successful and rose to the top of their fields. Second, they were very famous and of course, thirdly they were wealthy and experienced the privileges that fame and wealth brought. Finally, they were still seeking answers to life’s great questions even though it seemed they had experienced all the world had to offer.

Unlike many the past grammy winners of “Best Rock Album,” Viva La Vida or Death and All His Friends by Coldplay is filled with songs that deal with spiritual themes such as death, the meaning of life and searching for an afterlife.

Leadsinger Chris Martin notes, “…because we’ve had some people close to us we’ve lost, but some miracles — we’ve got kids. So, life has been very extreme recently, and so both death and life pop up quite often” (MTV News interview, June 9, 2008).

Russ Briermeier of Christianity Today observes that this album is “often provocative, spiritual, and seemingly on the verge of identifying a greater truth, asking and inspiring many questions without providing the answers.” It reminded me of King Solomon’s search for answers in the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament. Solomon also dealt the subject of death a lot. Ecclesiastes 7:2-4 asserts, “It is better to spend your time at funerals than at festivals. For you are going to die, and you should think about it while there is still time. Sorrow is better than laughter, it may sadden your face, but it sharpens your understanding.”

The subject of death is prominent in the songs “Poppyfields,” “Violet Hill,” “Death and All His Friends,” “42,” and the “Cemeteries of London.” Then the song “The Escapist” states, “And in the end, We lie awake and we dream, we’re makin our escape.” In the end we all die. Therefore, I assume this song is searching for an afterlife to escape to. The song “Glass of Water” sheds some more light on where we possibly escape to: “Oh he said you could see a future inside a glass of water, with riddles and the rhymes, He asked ‘Will I see heaven in mine?’

Coldplay is clearly searching for spiritual answers but it seems they have not found them quite yet. The song “42“: “Time is so short and I’m sure, There must be something more.” Then the song “Lost“: “Every river that I tried to cross, Every door I ever tried was locked, I’m just waiting til the shine wears off, You might be a big fish in a little pond, Doesn’t mean you’ve won, Because along may come a bigger one and you will be lost.”
Solomon went to the extreme in his searching in the Book of Ecclesiastes for this “something more” that Coldplay is talking about, but he did not find any satisfaction in pleasure (2:1), education (2:3), work (2:4), wealth (2:8) or fame (2:9). All of his accomplishments would not be remembered (1:11) and who is to say that they had not already been done before by others (1:10)? This reminds me of the big fish in the little pond that Coldplay was talking about. Even if you think you are on top, are you really? Also Solomon’s upcoming death depressed him because both people and animals alike “go to the same place — they came from dust and they return to dust” (3:20).

In 1978 I heard the song “Dust in the Wind” by Kansas when it rose to #6 on the charts. That song told me thatKerry Livgren the writer of that song and a member of Kansas had come to the same conclusion that Solomon had. I remember mentioning to my friends at church that we may soon see some members of Kansas become Christians because their search for the meaning of life had obviously come up empty even though they had risen from being an unknown band to the top of the music business and had all the wealth and fame that came with that. Furthermore, like Solomon and Coldplay, they realized death comes to everyone and “there must be something more.”

Livgren wrote:

“All we do, crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see, Dust in the Wind, All we are is dust in the wind, Don’t hang on, Nothing lasts forever but the Earth and Sky, It slips away, And all your money won’t another minute buy.”

Both Kerry Livgren and Dave Hope of Kansas became Christians eventually. Kerry Livgren first tried Eastern Religions and Dave Hope had to come out of a heavy drug addiction. was shocked and elated to see their personal testimony on The 700 Club in 1981 and that same  interview can be seen on youtube today. Livgren lives in Topeka, Kansas today where he teaches “Diggers,” a Sunday school class at Topeka Bible Church. Hope is the head of Worship, Evangelism and Outreach at Immanuel Anglican Church in Destin, Florida.

The movie maker Woody Allen has embraced the nihilistic message of the song “Dust in the Wind” by Kansas. David Segal in his article, “Things are Looking Up for the Director Woody Allen. No?” (Washington Post, July 26, 2006), wrote, “Allen is evangelically passionate about a few subjects. None more so than the chilling emptiness of life…The 70-year-old writer and director has been musing about life, sex, work, death and his generally futile search for hope…the world according to Woody is so bereft of meaning, so godless and absurd, that the only proper response is to curl up on a sofa and howl for your mommy.”

The song “Dust in the Wind” recommends, “Don’t hang on.” Allen himself says, “It’s just an awful thing and in that context you’ve got to find an answer to the question: ‘Why go on?’ “  It is ironic that Chris Martin the leader of Coldplay regards Woody Allen as his favorite director.

Lets sum up the final conclusions of these gentlemen:  Coldplay is still searching for that “something more.” Woody Allen has concluded the search is futile. Livgren and Hope of Kansas have become Christians and are involved in fulltime ministry. Solomon’s experiment was a search for meaning to life “under the sun.” Then in last few words in the Book of Ecclesiastes he looks above the sun and brings God back into the picture: “The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.”

Olphart responded:

Oh, there you are, Saline. I posted my response here: http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archi…

I was afraid of losing you back in the archives but now I find you (where else?) but back in the archives. I surely do hope that you’re not trying to avoid me.

BTW, I’m in the middle of watching “Crimes and Misdemeanors” and will respond to that as well.

BTW again. I think I’ve figured you out finally and will reveal my theory of Saline here soon. Do I hear your knees knocking? Is that your teeth gnashing? It’s definitely not MY teeth gnashing. They’re in the back bathroom by the sink.

____________

Dr. C. Everett Koop is pictured above.

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE

Published on Oct 6, 2012 by

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Great  quotes from “Whatever happened to the human race?”  by Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop (from the shelter website):.

Summary


Francis Schaeffer and, former Surgeon General, C. Everette Koop deal directly with the devaluing of human life and its results in our society. It did not take place in a vacuum. It is a direct result of a worldview that has rejected the doctrine of man being created in the image of God. Man as a product of the impersonal, plus time and chance has no sufficient basis for worth.

With nothing higher than human opinion upon which to base judgments and with ethics equaling no ethics, the justification for seeing crime and cruelty as disturbing is destroyed. The very word crime and even the word cruelty lose meaning. There is no final reason on which to forbid anything — “If nothing is forbidden, then anything is possible.”
(Francis A. Schaeffer and C. Everette Koop, Whatever Happened to the Human Race?, Ch. 1)

During the healthcare debate in 2009 we were told that Obamacare would not pay for abortions but according to this article below that is not true.

Amy Payne

January 9, 2013 at 9:13 am

Hobby Lobby gained national attention when its leadership announced they would not bow to the Obama Administration’s violation of their religious liberty. Thousands of Americans pledged to shop at the retailer over the weekend to show their appreciation for this stand—a stand that could cost the company up to $1.3 million in fines per day.

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Like many other companies, Hobby Lobby’s health insurance plan renewed on January 1, causing them to be subject to the Health and Human Services (HHS) mandate under Obamacare. This mandate forces employers to pay for coverage of abortion-inducing drugs like the “morning after” and “week after” pills, which directly violates many Americans’ deeply held beliefs—including Hobby Lobby’s owners, the Green family. The Greens, who founded the company, close all its locations on Sundays and seek to operate in accordance with Christian principles—including offering an employee health care plan that aligns with those values.

The Obama Administration’s outrageous position is that business owners’ rights to religious freedom end when they walk into their workplaces, claiming that “for-profit, secular employers generally do not engage in any exercise of religion protected by the First Amendment.

If employers don’t change their health plans to comply, they will be hit with fines—up to $100 per employee per day. But if they stop providing health coverage, Obamacare’s double whammy means that, come 2014, employers with more than 50 employees could instead be hit with fines for that.

Thirteen for-profit companies have received rulings touching on the merits of their cases from the courts so far. Ten have secured relief—though temporary—from having the mandate enforced against them. Three companies have been denied relief: Hobby Lobby, Autocam Corp., and Grote Industries.

Hobby Lobby founder and CEO David Green said, “The conflict for me is that our family is being forced to choose between following the laws of the country that we love or maintaining the religious beliefs that have made our business successful and have supported our family and thousands of our employees and their families.”

>> Watch the Green family talk about their convictions and their work

Hobby Lobby has more than 13,000 employees, so the $100 per employee per day fine is crippling.

John Kennedy, CEO of Autocam in Grand Rapids, MI, says his employees “are like family” and that he “can’t in good conscience choose between violating my beliefs and meeting my associates’ needs. It just doesn’t seem right.”

>> Watch John Kennedy of Autocam explain why he is fighting the mandate

William Grote III, CEO of Grote Industries, which manufactures vehicle lighting and safety systems, has said, “It would easily destroy the company should we not do it.”

For family business owners like the Kortes, a Roman Catholic family seeking to manage their construction company, K & L Contractors, in a manner consistent with their faith, this means penalties of as much as $730,000 per year, an amount that would be financially ruinous for their company and for them personally.

But at least one federal appellate court has expressly rejected the position that the Kortes’ religious freedom rights depend solely on the fact that they operate a secular, for-profit business, and litigation over this key legal question, which affects other family business owners like the Greens of Hobby Lobby, is likely headed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Late last year, a three-judge panel of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 2-1 to issue a preliminary injunction in favor of the Kortes, concluding that their Religious Freedom Restoration Act challenge to the HHS mandate is likely to succeed when their case is ultimately decided. It criticized the government’s position for “ignor[ing] that Cyril and Jane Korte are also plaintiffs” who “would have to violate their religious beliefs to operate their company in compliance with [the HHS mandate].” “That the Kortes operate their business in the corporate form is not dispositive of their claim,” the court held.

In other words, the fact that they operate a business doesn’t mean they give up their rights.

Pastor and author Rick Warren said in a statement about Hobby Lobby’s stance:

Every American who loves freedom should shudder at the precedent the government is trying to establish by denying Hobby Lobby the full protection of the First Amendment.

Freedom of religion doesn’t stop when an American walks outside his or her home or place of worship. For these business owners trying to live out their beliefs in the way they run their businesses, this mandate forces an excruciating decision.

Heritage research fellow Dominique Ludvigson contributed to this article.

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Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” (Episode 1) ABORTION OF THE HUMAN RACE

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