“Sanctity of Life Saturday” Liberals at Ark Times can not stand up to Scott Klusendorf’s pro-life arguments (Part 5) Blogger asserts, “You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem.”

Scott Klusendorf Speaks at the 40 Days for Life in Dayton, OH

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Francis Schaeffer Whatever Happened to the Human Race (Episode 1) ABORTION

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Francis Schaeffer “BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY” Whatever…HTTHR

Dr. Francis schaeffer – The flow of Materialism(from Part 4 of Whatever happened to human race?)

Dr. Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical flow of Truth & History (intro)

Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical Flow of History & Truth (1)

Dr. Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical Flow of Truth & History (part 2)

 

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I have gone back and forth with Ark Times liberal bloggers on the issue of abortion, but I am going to try something new. I am going to respond with logical and rational reasons the pro-life view is true. All of this material is from a paper by Scott Klusendorf called FIVE BAD WAYS TO ARGUE ABOUT ABORTION .

The person using the username “Steven E ” wrote this on 5-10-13 on the Ark Times Blog:

You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem. 

Then there are the idiots and murderers who claim that a fetus is not a baby. If it is not a baby, it is not a Life worthy of consideration. To some of them, an elective abortion at the 8th month is no moral problem, which is a giant and repugnant LIE. 

To say life begins at conception is a lie.

To say a fetus, even though eight months old, is not a life is another lie, too.

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I responded:

Steven E, you have written some very wise things on this blog many times before but I have differ with you on one short point from what you just said. These are your exact words:

“You have the Saline idiocy which is life begins at conception. Well, on one level, that is true, but it is not a life, it is not a human so there is a point where, morally, abortion is not a problem.”

Scott Klusendorf responded to this kind of thinking by stating:

SLED: Defend the Unborn with Scott Klusendorf

Pro-life advocates contend that elective abortion unjustly takes the life of a defenseless human being.  This simplifies the abortion controversy by focusing public attention on just one question: Is the unborn a member of the human family?  If so, killing him or her to benefit others is a serious moral wrong.  Conversely, if the unborn are not human, elective abortion requires no more justification than having a tooth pulled.

Scientifically, we know that from the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings.  Leading embryology textbooks confirm this.1 Prior to advocating elective abortion, former Planned Parenthood President Dr. Alan Guttmacher was perplexed that anyone, much less a medical doctor, would question these basic scientific facts.  “This all seems so simple and evident that it is difficult to picture a time when it wasn’t part of the common knowledge,” he wrote in his book Life in the Making.2

Philosophically, there is no morally significant difference between the embryo you once were and the adult you are today.  Differences of size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency are not relevant in the way that abortion advocates need them to be.  The simple acronym SLED can be used to illustrate these non-essential differences:3

Size: True, embryos are smaller than newborns and adults, but why is that relevant?  Do we really want to say that large people are more valuable than small ones?  Men are generally larger than women, but that doesn’t mean they deserve more rights.  Size doesn’t equal value.

Level of development: True, embryos and fetuses are less developed than you and I.  But again, why is this relevant?  Four year-old girls are less developed than 14 year-old ones. Should older children have more rights than their younger siblings?  Some people say that the immediate capacity for self-awareness and a desire to go on living makes one valuable. But if that is true, newborns do not qualify as valuable human beings.  Infants do not acquire distinct self-awareness and memory until several months after birth.4 (Best case scenario, infants acquire limited self-awareness three months after birth, when the synapse connections increase from 56 trillion to 1,000 trillion.)  As abortion advocate and philosopher Dean Stretton writes, “Any plausible pro-choice theory will have to deny newborns a full right to life.  That’s counterintuitive.”5

Environment: Where you are has no bearing on who you are.  Does your value change when you cross the street or roll over in bed?  If not, how can a journey of eight inches down the birth-canal suddenly change the essential nature of the unborn from non-human to human?  If the unborn are not already valuable human beings, merely changing their location can’t make them so.

Degree of Dependency: If viability bestows human value, then all those who depend on insulin or kidney medication are not valuable and we may kill them.  Conjoined twins who share blood type and bodily systems also have no right to life.

In short, although humans differ immensely with respect to talents, accomplishments, and degrees of development, they are nonetheless equal (and valuable) because they all have the same human nature.

FOOTNOTES:

1 See T.W. Sadler, Langman’s Embryology, 5th ed. (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders, 1993) p. 3; Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (Toronto: B.C. Decker, 1988) p. 2; O’Rahilly, Ronand and Muller, Pabiola, Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd ed. (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996) pp. 8, 29. See also Maureen L. Condic, “Life: Defining the Beginning by the End,” First Things, May 2003.

2 A. Guttmacher, Life in the Making: the Story of Human Procreation (New York: Viking Press, 1933) p. 3

3 SLED test initially developed by Stephen Schwarz but modified significantly and explained here by Scott Klusendorf. Stephen Schwarz, The Moral Question of Abortion (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1990) pp. 17-18.

4 Conor Liston & Jerome Kagan, “Brain Development: Memory Enhancement in Early Childhood,” Nature 419, 896 (2002). See also O’Rahilly, Ronand and Muller, Pabiola, Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd ed. (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996) p. 8.

Steven E did respond by writing:

Saline, I appreciate the very informative answer, but the beginning stages of the embryo, even these decorated folks have to admit, cannot live outside the uterine wall. You can have a 3 month premature birth survive because it is, undeniably, a living person.

That undeniable scientific line kind of defeats the extremes of both sides.

I make no mistake. There is a time when the choice belongs exclusively to the pregnant woman. There is also a time when a contentious woman knows that she is killing a living being and should give it proper thought, rather than dismissing this living human life as ‘just’ a fetus.

I did respond by writing:

Yes the unborn baby that is only 3 months along can not live outside the womb because this child must depend on the mother for food. Steven E you are correct about that but what about that logic being used on the 3 month old baby that is dependent on the mother and father to provide food? What if a child requires insulin to live? Should we say the child is not worthy of life because of the dependence on a drug to live?

Yes the younger unborn baby is smaller at 13 weeks than 39 weeks but is a 4 year old young girl not a child worthy of life because she is not mature in every way like a 18 year old girl is?

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I have gone back and forth with Ark Times liberal bloggers on the issue of abortion, but I am going to try something new. I am going to respond with logical and rational reasons the pro-life view is true. All of this material is from a paper by Scott Klusendorf called FIVE BAD WAYS TO ARGUE ABOUT ABORTION .

On 2-8-13 on the Ark Times Blog the person using the username “Venessa,” wrote, ” Well, Saline, I am NOT A CHRISTIAN and you don’t get to force your beliefs on me.”

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Here is my response:  

Scott Klusendorf responded to this kind of thinking by stating:

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