“Schaeffer Sunday” Abortion debating with Ark Times Bloggers Part 11 “Abortion and the AMA” and the article “Abortion and infanticide” by David L. Skeen (includes video “Slaughter of the Innocents” and editorial cartoon)

I have debated with Ark Times Bloggers many times in the past on many different subjects. Abortion is probably the most often debated subject and I have noticed that many pro-life individuals are now surfacing on the Arkansas Times Blog.  Here are some examples. Arhogfan501 asserted: This is the beginning of the end for recreational abortion in Arkansas. Songbird777 noted: Babies have a right to live and not be chopped up for someone else’s convenience. The person using the username “baker” commented: Planned Parenthood (PPA) does not nor cannot provide mammograms, indeed no affiliate has the necessary license. PPA is an abortion provider and at some 900 plus killings a day rather prolific.

Here is another debate I got into recently on the Arkansas Times Blog and I go by the username “Saline Republican”:

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On 3-25-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog the person that goes by the username “Arkie” asserted:

SalineRepublican

I see your five doctors and raise you the AMA.

The Principles of Medical Ethics of the AMA do not prohibit a physician from performing an abortion in accordance with good medical practice and under circumstances that do not violate the law.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-…

The person going by the username “Steven E” responded:

Arkie, your AMA link is short, and old, but still valid. It also states that will not violate the law. So far, the law, which I agree with, is set by Roe v. Wade, which acknowledges the issue of viability, and give the legal protection infantcidal crones like Norma refuse to accept….Except for one uncomfortable fact, the science of life. It is nice to go off on tangents, and even include the relevance of the religious zealots who claim life begins at conception, and for some, even BOEFORE conception.

What about objective science which shows that despite your assertive lies, that fetus is a life, is a human, is a baby. Before it is out of the womb, it is a human life, and there fore some small consideration shuold be shown for its welfare.

Not snarky and unsubstantiated lunacy as stating that it is not life, or whatever nonsense you spouted.

It is fine to go after those that spout only from faith, but what about biology?

I replied:

Arkie you had a reply that would seem to make a lot of sense when you asserted:
SalineRepublican

I see your five doctors and raise you the AMA.

The Principles of Medical Ethics of the AMA do not prohibit a physician from performing an abortion in accordance with good medical practice and under circumstances that do not violate the law.
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However, I wonder how respected that organization is today when they have turned their back on the Hippocratic oath. Francis Schaeffer and Dr. C. Everett Koop (who was praised by several on this blog recently) wrote in there book WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?(published in 1979):

The graduates of American medical schools have traditionally taken the Hippocratic oath, which goes back more than two thousand years at the time of their commencement. The Declaration of Geneva (adopted in September 1948 by the General Assembly of the World Medical Organization and modeled closely on the Hippocratic oath) became used as the graduation oath by more and more medical schools. It includes, “I will maintain the utmost respect for human life; from the time of conception.” This concept for the preservation of human life has been the basis of the medical profession and society in general. It is significant that, when the University of Pittsburgh changed from the Hippocratic oath to the Declaration of Geneva in 1971, the students deleted “from the time of conception” from the clause beginning “I will maintain the utmost respect for human life.” The University of Toronto School of Medicine has also removed the phrase “from the time of conception” from the form of oath it now uses.

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I truly believe that many of the problems we have today in the USA are due to the advancement of humanism in the last few decades in our society. Ronald Reagan appointed the evangelical Dr. C. Everett Koop to the position of Surgeon General in his administration. He partnered with Dr. Francis Schaeffer in making the video below. It is very valuable information for Christians to have.  Actually I have included a video below that includes comments from him on this subject.

In the film series “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE HUMAN RACE?” the arguments are presented  against abortion (Episode 1),  infanticide (Episode 2),   euthenasia (Episode 3), and then there is a discussion of the Christian versus Humanist worldview concerning the issue of “the basis for human dignity” in Episode 4 and then in the last episode a close look at the truth claims of the Bible.

Good quote below from Francis Crick that is in chapter 2 of Whatever Happened to the Human Race?

Abortion and infanticide

This article from the UK Telegraph from late February summarizes (and links to) an article in the Journal of Medical Ethics which argues that “newborn babies are not ‘actual persons’ and do not have a ‘moral right to life’. The academics [Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva] also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.”  Giubilini and Minerva “use the phrase ‘after-birth abortion’ rather than ‘infanticide’ to ‘emphasise that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus’.”

So less than 40 years after abortion on-demand was legalized in the US, we see an article in an academic journal making the argument that because abortion is morally acceptable, infanticide is also morally acceptable.  For Christians who have opposed abortion for decades, this development is not surprising.

In their 1979 book Whatever Happened to the Human Race?, Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop wrote:

At a population control conference in Washington DC, as reported by editor-writer Norman Podhoretz, one speaker saw “no reason why anyone who accepted abortion should balk at infanticide.”  Another urged certain medical qualifying tests for all newborns.  These would determine their genetic characteristics and, thus, whether their right to life should for forfeited.  Of course, at present only a few hold these ideas, but unfortunately they are presenting these ideas again and again.  Taken a little more seriously each time, they become a little more thinkable each time….

Without the Judeo-Christian base which gives every individual an intrinsic dignity as made in the image of the personal-infinite Creator, each successive horror falls naturally in place.  Combine arbitrary law (in which a small group of people may decide what is good for society at that moment of history) with the Supreme Court ruling on arbitrary abortion and the gates are opened for many kinds of killing under the guise of social good.

In his 1980 book The Right to Live, The Right to Die, Koop wrote:

It is, further, absolutely astounding to me that Justice Blackmun could have included the following sentence in his decision: “We need not resolve the question of when life begins.”  Where does this lead?  It leads to infanticide and eventually to euthanasia.  If the law will not protect the life of a normal, unborn child, what chance does a newborn infant have after birth, if in the eyes of Justice Blackmun, he might be less than normal?…

Koop quoted James Watson, who wrote in an American Medical Association publication (in 1973): “If a child were not declared alive until three days after birth, then all parents could be allowed the choice only a few are given in the present system.”  Koop also quoted Francis Crick (in a 1978 interview): “No newborn infant should be declared human until it has passed certain tests regarding its genetic endowment and that if it fails these tests, it forfeits the right to live.”  So we can see scientific voices (Watson and Crick were Nobel laureates) arguing for infanticide decades ago.

In the US, we have seen our laws become increasingly arbitrary. In some states, euthanasia has been legalized. The Obama administration has given federal funding to embryonic stem cell research, where embryos are destroyed in the hope of finding medical cures.  Perhaps a state will legalize infanticide, probably in limited circumstances at first.  If this occurs, and the statute is challenged in the courts, how would the Supreme Court would rule on it?  In all likelihood, the Court would make another arbitrary ruling.

Our nation has drifted further and further from a fundamental commitment to a God-given right to life, which we had recognized in our Declaration of Independence.  If we continue on this path, we can anticipate successive horrors falling naturally in place.

Francis Schaeffer and his wife Edith pictured below.

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Francis Schaeffer Whatever Happened to the Human Race (Episode 1) ABORTION

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Francis Schaeffer “BASIS FOR HUMAN DIGNITY” Whatever…HTTHR

Dr. Francis schaeffer – The flow of Materialism(from Part 4 of Whatever happened to human race?)

Dr. Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical flow of Truth & History (intro)

Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical Flow of History & Truth (1)

Dr. Francis Schaeffer – The Biblical Flow of Truth & History (part 2)

Partial birth abortion is such a dirty business and here is an editorial cartoon on this issue:

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