Taking on Ark Times Bloggers on various issues Part W “Why did Rick Perry change his mind about abortion and rape?”(includes the film SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS and editorial cartoon)

I have gone back and forth and back and forth with many liberals on the Arkansas Times Blog on many issues such as abortion, human rights, welfare, poverty, gun control  and issues dealing with popular culture. Here is another exchange I had with them a while back. My username at the Ark Times Blog is Saline Republican.

On 3-6-13 on the Arkansas Times Blog the person with the username “DeathByInches” asserted:

Oh how many nice white Republicans wish Jesse Jackson’s mother had gone ahead with that abortion though I’m sure Saline is one of Jesse’s biggest fans. I hope someday after the GOP has been dead for 50 years we’ll look back and shake our head that pinheads such as they once were allowed to have power in these United States.

“The mental health of the mother can be used as an escape clause for almost anything ”

This comment by Saline is all you need to know about him and where he stands. How disgusting! And it’s a clear indication of how mentally ill Saline is today….it’s chilling……towelheads wearing bomb vests don’t scare me as much as Americans who think like SalineRepublican….death will bring such relief, I yearn for my urn.

I replied:

Jesse Jackson’s mother was told she should have an abortion but she didn’t and Jackson said in 1977 that made this issue very personal to him. Here are some portions from that speech.

• “The question of abortion confronts me in several different ways. First, although I do not profess to be a biologist, I have studied biology and know something about life from the point of view of the natural sciences. Second, I am a minister of the Gospel and therefore, feel that abortion has a religious and moral dimension that I must consider. Third, I was born out of wedlock (and against the advice that my mother received from her doctor) and therefore abortion is a personal issue for me. From my perspective, human life is the highest good, and God is the supreme good because He is the giver of life. That is my philosophy. Everything I do proceed from that religious and philosophical premise.”

• “Therefore, life is the highest human good because life is sacred. Biologically speaking, thousands of male sperms are ejaculated into the female reproductive tract during sexual intercourse, but only once in a while do the egg and sperm bring about fertilization. Some call that connection accidental, but I choose to call it providential. It takes three to make a baby: a man, a woman and the Holy Spirit.”

• “Human beings cannot give or create life by themselves it is really a gift from God. Therefore, one does not have the right to take away (through abortion) that which he does not have the ability to give.”

• “Some of the most dangerous arguments for abortion stem from popular judgments about life’s ultimate meaning, but the logical conclusion of their position is never pursued. Some people may, unconsciously, operate their lives as if pleasure is life’s highest good, and pain and suffering man’s greatest enemy. That position, if followed to its logical conclusion, means that that which prohibits pleasure should be done away with by whatever means are necessary. By the same rationale, whatever means are necessary should be used to prevent suffering and pain. My position is not to negate pleasure nor elevate suffering, but merely to argue against their being elevated to an ultimate end of life. Because if they are so elevated, anything, including murder and genocide, can be carried out in their name.”

• “Psychiatrists, social workers and doctors often argue for abortion on the basis that the child will grow up mentally and emotionally scared. But who of us is complete? If incompleteness were the criteria for taking life we would all be dead. If you can justify abortion on the basis of emotional incompleteness then your logic could also lead you to killing for other forms of incompleteness — blindness, crippleness, and old age.”

• “There are those who argue that the right to privacy is of higher order than the right to life. I do not share that view. I believe that life is not private, but rather it is public and universal. If one accepts the position that life is private, and therefore you have the right to do with it as you please, one must also accept the conclusion of that logic. That was the premise of slavery. You could not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation because that was private and therefore outside of your right to concerned.”

• “Another area that concerns me greatly, namely because I know how it has been used with regard to race, is the psycholinguistics involved in this whole issue of abortion. If something can be dehumanized through the rhetoric used to describe it, then the major battle has been won. That is why the Constitution called us three-fifths human…. It was part of the dehumanizing process. The first step was to distort the image of us as human beings in order to justify that which they wanted to do and not even feel like they had done anything wrong. Those advocates of taking life prior to birth do not call it killing or murder; they call it abortion. They further never talk about aborting a baby because that would imply something human. Rather they talk about aborting the fetus. Fetus sounds less than human and therefore can be justified.

• “It is that question, the question of our attitude, our value system, and our mind-set with regard to the nature and worth of life itself that is the central question confronting mankind. Failure to answer that question affirmatively may leave us with a hell right here on earth.”

You are wrong DBI when you imply that I wished Jesse Jackson had been aborted. Unlike Paul Covert I do like interaction with those who disagree with me and unlike Soundpolicy I treat them with respect without name calling.

I am glad that there are more pro-lifers than ever on this blog taking up for the unborn child and I believe there are many liberals on this blog that don’t want the pro-life view removed because they believe strongly in freedom of speech. 60 years ago Stalin died and that is the type of leader you will get if you don’t believe in freedom of speech.

Paul Covert replied:

Saline – the problem is that you don’t respect the opinions and viewpoints of the women who are carrying the fetuses. When you learn that other people’s reproductive choices are none of your damned business, I will try to find some respect for you.

___________

I replied:

Paul Covert said, “Saline – the problem is that you don’t respect the opinions and viewpoints of the women who are carrying the fetuses. When you learn that other people’s reproductive choices are none of your damned business…”

What about the rights of the unborn children and even those who were the products of rape.

Do you know why Rick Perry changed his mind on the issue of rape victims and abortion on 12-28-11? Here is an article from Life News from that day:

At a pro-life presidential forum last night, Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry announced that he had a change of heart on abortion in cases of rape or incest — now opposing abortion in such rare cases.

Perry said his change of heart came after meeting with Rebecca Kiessling, a pro-life attorney who was born after her birthmother was a victim of sexual assault.

“This is something that is relatively new and it goes back to a meeting with Rebecca Kiessling, who was at the The Gift of Life,” Perry said about meeting her at a recent showing of the new movie. “We had a fairly lengthy and heartfelt conversation about how she was conceived in rape. Looking in her eyes, I couldn’t come up with an answer to defend exceptions for rape and incest.”

“Over the course of the last few weeks, the Christmas holiday, reflecting on that – I would suggest that my pro-life position has been rather strong as the Governor of Texas. But she made a statement to me that was really strong and pierced my heart. As I signed that document, I will suggest to you that all I can tell you is God was working on my heart,” he said.

“You’re seeing a transformation,” Perry said of his thinking on abortion and called his conversation with Kiessling “powerful.”

Kiessling described that conversation with Perry and said it left an indelible mark on her as well.

“He was stunned as I handed him my DVDs, asking me more about my story. Then he said he wanted my autograph, which I tried to brush off, but he ripped open the cellophane, pulled out the DVD and a marker, asking me to sign it to his daughter, which I did,” she said, signing “100% Pro-Life, Rebecca Kiessling.”

Kiessling continued:

“He asked more about my story, then he told me that I was his heroine. I thanked him and said, “Funny you say that, because my question for you is — would you be my hero? I’m alive because of pro-life leaders who were my heroes. They made sure abortion was illegal, even in cases of rape. They are my heroes and I owe my life to them. Would you be my hero too?’”

“He said, “Yes, I would!” And I replied, “But you make the rape exception.” He responded, “Wow, this is so powerful.” I said to him, “When you make that rape exception, it’s like you’re saying to me that I deserved the death penalty for the crimes of my father. According to the U.S. Supreme Court, my father didn’t even deserve the death penalty. The Supreme Court has said there is no death penalty for rapists. But you say that I, as the innocent child of rape, deserved the death penalty?” And Perry said, “No, no, I don’t believe that.”

He hesitated, then went on, “Wow, you know, tonight’s event, and this film, is all about changing hearts and minds. Right now, you’re changing MY heart.” I looked him in the eye and asked, “No more exceptions?” He looked intently back at me and said, “No more exceptions.”

He went on to say that he’d never really put a face to the issue and never considered it from the perspective of someone like me, then he said again that I’d changed his heart on this issue. When he gave his speech later, he was talking about protecting every child, then looked at me and said something like “ALL are worthy of protection.” And that’s how he ended his speech.

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/12/28/rick-pe…

__________

This discussion of abortion reminds me of this editorial cartoon I saw on abortion.

Francis Schaeffer and his wife Edith pictured below.

Francis Schaeffer: “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” (Episode 2) SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS

Published on Oct 6, 2012 by

___________

My senior year (1980) at the Evangelical Christian School (ECS) was when I got to see both of Francis Schaeffer’s films “How should we then live?” and “Whatever happened to the human race?”

Compassionate Engagement, Part 5: Schaeffer’s Political Activism

By Derek Brown on January 12, 2012

Part 1    Part 2    Part 3    Part 4

Schaeffer’s effort against abortion expressed itself in another film and book, co-authored with C. Everett Koop, entitled, What Ever Happened to the Human Race.  In both the book and the film, Schaeffer argued that the disappearance of a Christian base in the West had led the adoption of a humanist foundation; the remedy was the reestablishment of the Christian base that had been lost in the twentieth century as a result of the ideas of the Enlightenment that had spread throughout the culture (Hankins, 188).  As the book and the film graphically describe the process of abortion, Schaeffer observed that clear phrases like “ending a pregnancy” were only a disguise for what was actually occurring; namely the killing of a human being (Hankins, 181).

Schaeffer and Koop’s endeavor to startle sleeping evangelicals into action apparently worked.  Prior to 1980, very few Protestant denominations sought involvement in the abortion problem, considering it a problem with which the Roman Catholic Church had taken issue.  In 1980 the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), for example, established pro-life resolutions aimed at stopping abortions.  Key leaders within the SBC had read Schaeffer and testified to Schaeffer’s influence on this vital issue.  According to Hankins, “[Schaeffer’s] push against abortion certainly helped fuel the evangelical pro-life movement” (Hankins, 182).

Schaeffer followed What Ever Happened to the Human Race with A Christian Manifesto.  Schaeffer’s burden in the latter book was to help Christians understand their relationship to the government, law, and civil disobedience.  Like the books that had come before, Manifesto was a book of worldviews.  In introducing his plea for Christians to stand against secular humanism, Schaeffer began his argument by noting how pietism—that form of Christianity that emphasizes the experiential component of the faith—had served to divorce facts and ideas from the realm of experience and thus relegated Christianity to the sphere of the private and subjective.  This unfortunate consequence of pietism, Schaeffer argued, allowed secular humanism to develop a strong foothold; Christians were to stand against development by seeing Christianity not merely as an experience, but as a worldview that makes sense of all reality (Hankins, 196-197).

In regards to the question of civil disobedience, Schaeffer believed it was the responsibility of Christians to resist the state when officeholders became tyrannical, although the general demeanor of Christians should be one of submission.  Schaeffer was also reluctant to advocate the use of force—even on the issue of abortion.  Legislative action, sit-ins, political pressure, and quiet demonstrations should be the primary way in which Christians should seek to influence the government and the change of laws (Hankins, 208).

Schaeffer wielded significant influence in the political realm, just as he had previously in the area of Christian apologetics and evangelical engagement with culture—the latter area undoubtedly related to his political involvement as well.  According to Colin Duriez, Schaeffer’s three books, How Shall We Then Live, Whatever Happened to the Human Race, and A Christian Manifesto,

…substantially helped created a new Evangelical Right in America.  Certainly, joining the pro-life lobby identified Schaeffer with America’s Religious Right, which was able to exercise considerable political clout during the Reagan era (Duriez, 191).

Schaeffer would continue his labors despite the fact that two years earlier (in 1978) he had been diagnosed with cancer.  With treatment, Schaeffer’s cancer retreated into remission for a season, while he continued to write and speak at various venues around the United States and spend time at L’Abri.  On May 15, 1984, however, only two years after publishing a five volume set of his complete works, Francis Schaeffer died at his home in Rochester, Minnesota.

Next: Conclusion: Schaeffer’s Lasting Influrence

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