Video clips of Jonah Goldberg and an interview about his book “Liberal Fascism” (Part 3)

Liberal Fascism (5) – Jonah Goldberg ** UNEDITED **

Uploaded by on Feb 17, 2008

Jonah Goldberg discusses his new book, “Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning”, at The Heritage Foundation on C-SPAN2. 09 JAN 08.


Below is  a portion of the blog post Interviewing Jonah Goldberg About His New Book, Liberal Fascism by John Hawkins. I thought you would enjoy it:

Yesterday, I interviewed Jonah Goldberg about his new book, Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.

What follows is a slightly edited transcript of our conversation.


In Ron Radosh’s review of your book, he says, “Turning to what he calls liberal racism, Mr. Goldberg offers readers his finest chapter. It is a devastating picture of how liberals adopted eugenics — a basic part of Nazi doctrine..” Talk about that a bit.

Sure. You often hear, especially from the fringe feminist Left, that pro-lifers are like Nazis or fascistic because they want to “oppress women.” I’m perfectly willing to have an argument about pro-life, pro-choice, all that sort of thing and even though I might disagree with the pro-choicers on most of their arguments, I don’t think it’s inherently disqualifying to make a pro-choice argument. But, what is simply factually not the case, is that the pro-life position has anything to do with Nazism.

You would think that a half-century after the Holocaust, it wouldn’t be necessary to remind people that Nazis weren’t pro-life. Long before they started the campaign against the Jews, they started a massive euthanasia campaign, killing what they called the useless bread gobblers….What I think a lot of people don’t appreciate and what has been pretty well established now in the historical literature is that the Nazis were in many ways picking up on ideas that first flourished in the United States under the progressives.

The progressives start the forced sterilizations. It is the progressives who talk about weeding out the inferior races. Margaret Sanger, the Founder of Planned Parenthood, was all about weeding out the duskier and darker races…and all of that. The socialists of Britain, the Fabian socialists, George Bernard Shaw, HG Wells, all of those guys, were soaked to the bone eugenicists who considered eugenics and socialism to be the same project. Oliver Wendell Holmes, the author of the Bell Case, where the court ruled it was OK to forcibly sterilize low income whites because they were viewed as sort of sub par genetic filth that needed to be cleaned up; Oliver Wendell Holmes said the first priority of social reform was to build a race. There were plenty of eugenicists who wanted to create a genetic Gulag Archipelago. They were going to put inferior women in, essentially, these interior colonies during their fertile years so that they could not breed.

The welfare state was in many senses a eugenic project. As one famous progressive put it, his argument for the minimum wage was, the Cooley — meaning the Chinese worker — cannot outwork the white man, but he can under-live him. The logic of that was that since these inferior races needed so little to live on, if you created a minimum wage to lock them out, they would sort of die out of their own accord, because no employer in his right mind would hire anybody but a white man if he had to pay a white man’s wage. That logic suffused the founding of the liberal welfare state.

Woodrow Wilson, when he was Governor of New Jersey, he signed a eugenics sterilization law that appointed a eugenics minister for the state of New Jersey, who ended up being a “doctor” in one of the Nazi concentration camps….

Do you think some of the things that now occur on college campuses, school papers being deliberately trashed if they say something politically incorrect, college Republicans being persecuted for simply having different views, conservative speakers being screamed over and attacked with food, is reminiscent of fascist tactics?

Of course it is. Leading the charge of the Nazi movement in the 1930s were student groups. The students far outpaced the rest of society in joining the Nazi Party. The Nazi Party was in many respects — much like the Italian Fascist Party — a youth movement. They appealed to youth, they claimed that they were the voice of the new generation, you had students attacking the conservative teachers who wanted to maintain the traditional notion of a university. The students were demanding that buzzword we hear on college campuses today, “relevance.” You know, why do we have to learn Latin and Greek and all these things? Why can’t we learn about the progressive things of today? All the protests that you saw on campuses were reminiscent of it. At the end of the day, whether you want to call it communist tactics or fascist tactics or whatever, any time you have people burning campus newspapers, shouting down speakers, mobbing the stage like you had at Columbia, those are undemocratic tactics, those are totalitarian tactics, those are mob rule tactics. The thing to remember about all of these “isms” of the Left is that they are rationalizations for mob rule.

Liberal Fascism Q-A (1)

Uploaded by on Feb 17, 2008

PART 1:…
Q&A session — Jonah Goldberg discusses his new book, “Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning”, at The Heritage Foundation on C-SPAN2. 09 JAN 08. (

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